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Rick Armendariz
Witness for the People: Guilt Phase
July 7 & 12, 2004
CLERK: Be seated. State and spell your name for the record.
ARMENDARIZ: Rick Armendariz. A-r-m-e-n-d-a-r-i-z.
DISTASO: Detective, where are you employed?
ARMENDARIZ: City of Modesto. Modesto Police Department.
DISTASO: Your job there is as a detective?
ARMENDARIZ: Actually since the incident of this investigation, I became a
Police Sergeant with the department.
DISTASO: So the proper title would be Sergeant?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: At the time of this investigation, I think you were in the
Detective Division; is that right?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
DISTASO: And how long have you been a sworn peace officer in California?
ARMENDARIZ: For nine years with the Modesto Police Department full
time.
DISTASO: As part of the investigation into the disappearance of Laci
Peterson, were you involved in some searches of the San Francisco Bay?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, I was.
DISTASO: And particularly I want to ask you about, I want to ask you
about a search that took place in May. And before we go there, how
many times were you involved in searches in the Bay?
ARMENDARIZ: Approximately six different times.
DISTASO: And can you just give me the range of dates that you were out
there?
ARMENDARIZ: Actually doing full searches in the Bay, May 10th,
JUDGE: What year?
ARMENDARIZ: Of 2003. May 16th, May 17th.
DISTASO: Hold on a second. May 10th, May 16th?
ARMENDARIZ: May 17th.
JUDGE: May 17th?
ARMENDARIZ: May 17th.
DISTASO: Un-hun.
ARMENDARIZ: And also September 11th and September 18th.
DISTASO: Okay. That's five times. Is that it?
ARMENDARIZ: May 10th. I'm sorry. May 10th, May 16th, May 17th, May 18th,
September 11th and September 18th. Sorry.
DISTASO: And you were out searching in the Bay for what?
ARMENDARIZ: When we were doing the grid searches with the Side-Scan Sonar.
We were looking for any evidence related to the case, as well as
any remains.
DISTASO: And so Laci Peterson's body had washed ashore in April; is that
right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: But her body was not intact?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: So you were involved in searching the Bay for, further searches
of the Bay to attempt to locate any other possible remains, or any
other evidence?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
DISTASO: What were the conditions like when you were on the boat
searching the Bay?
ARMENDARIZ: Overall, unfortunately, they were really poor. More with the
water conditions. The current, both on top of the water and the
undercurrent under the water, going in different directions. The
tides in the morning as compared to evening. At approximately 1:00
o'clock, some time after that time, is when the waters got really
choppy, and the divers were not able to work as well, as well as
the Side-Scan Sonar.
GERAGOS: Objection to that.
JUDGE: It's a narrative.
GERAGOS: With divers and Side-Scan Sonar.
JUDGE: First narrative answer. Number two, he searched the Bay five or
six times. We don't know what day he's talking about.
DISTASO: In the searches in May, was the conditions all roughly the
same?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: Is that what you were just describing to me?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: So you were on the boat, they were towing a Side-Scan
Sonar?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: If they would find something, if the sonar would find something
of interest, they would send divers down?
ARMENDARIZ: They would be marked and eventually later on they would send
divers down.
DISTASO: Okay. Were you ever on the boat when the divers actually went
into the water?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, I was.
DISTASO: And you said basically the conditions were very
difficult.
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: Was there, what did the Side-Scan Sonars look like?
ARMENDARIZ: They looked like a torpedo, for lack of a better term.
Approximately five feet long, with a diameter of approximately six
inches. They are yellow in color. They weigh approximately 40 to
60 pounds in weight. And they are towed behind a boat with a cable
that is approximately a half inch to three quarters of an inch
thick.
DISTASO: And they, so basically they just kind ever run behind the boat,
and they shoot down these little sonar images of the bottom of the
Bay, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: And then you can read it on a screen inside the boat?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: At some point on one of these days, did something happen to the
sonar unit?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes. Actually the first time I went out, which was actually May
10th, we were in the, do you want me to,
DISTASO: Go ahead.
ARMENDARIZ: We were in the water at approximately 2:00 o'clock. The
Side-Scan Sonar, the torpedo actually hit a sand bar underneath
the water which wasn't tracked. So they hit the Side-Scan Sonar,
got stuck in the sand bar, and immediately lost image of what was
going on.
DISTASO: Let me stop you. Then after that happened, did the Side-Scan
Sonar somehow become dislodged from the boat?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, it did.
DISTASO: How did that happen?
ARMENDARIZ: The driver of the boat turned, the propeller cut the cable
cord, which left the Side-Scan Sonar in the water.
DISTASO: When the sonar was lost, is this an expensive piece of
equipment?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes. It's roughly about $10,000 just for the sonar
itself.
DISTASO: So whose boat were you on, what agency?
ARMENDARIZ: San Mateo County Sheriff's Department.
DISTASO: So I'm assuming they want their sonar back?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, very much so.
DISTASO: When the sonar got lost, did they do anything, did you see them
do anything to mark the location of that?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes. As we were doing our search, we were, actually, they were
tracking the search by the GPS. And immediately soon as then lost the sonar, they marked the
location to be able to identify the general location of where they
lost the Side-Scan Sonar in order to be able to come back and
retrieve it.
DISTASO: And did you go back with the boat on that day and anchor the
boat down where you thought it might be, and send divers to try to
find it?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes. Immediately afterwards we turned around, ran, went back to
the location.
DISTASO: What happened?
ARMENDARIZ: The divers went down, and searching under the water, they were
not able to locate it after about approximately an hour of
searching.
DISTASO: Did they report what the conditions and visibility was down at
the bottom?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes. They described it as being black water.
GERAGOS: Objection. Hearsay.
JUDGE: Sustained.
DISTASO: Do you know what the depth of the water was approximately where
this got lost?
ARMENDARIZ: Approximately seven feet.
DISTASO: And can you show the jury on People's 109 just the approximate
location that you were searching that day when the sonar unit got
lost?
ARMENDARIZ: We were southeast of Brooks Island. This general area.
DISTASO: You can go back to the seat. You said you also went out on
other days in May; is that right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: Was that with another different agency's sonar unit?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes.
DISTASO: And what agencies did you go out on the other days?
ARMENDARIZ: On May 16th I went out with San Luis Obispo Sheriff's
Department Diver Rescue team. We used their Side-Scan Sonar.
DISTASO: What about on the 17th and 18th?
ARMENDARIZ: On May 17th I actually went out with the FBI, the Federal
Bureau of Investigation, who had their dive team with them. They
were specifically focusing diving on certain items.
DISTASO: And all of these times did the divers report the conditions
that you have kind of described?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes.
DISTASO: And did they,
GERAGOS: Objection. Hearsay. Compound, as to specifically what they
reported. It can be framed some way else.
JUDGE: What they told him is hearsay. You can't get around it that
way. The jury can disregard what the divers told this
officer.
DISTASO: Was anything found during any searches in May?
ARMENDARIZ: Nothing related to the investigation.
DISTASO: And, again, in September, the two days you went in September,
was it, did you have similar, a similar experience with the
searching that was happening?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes.
DISTASO: And what agencies did you go out with on those days?
ARMENDARIZ: On September 11th I went out with the Contra Costa County
Sheriff's Dive and Rescue Team.
DISTASO: What about on the 18th?
ARMENDARIZ: September 18th I again went out with the Contra Costa County
Sheriff Dive and Rescue Team.
DISTASO: Nothing further, your Honor.
Cross Examination by Mark Geragos
GERAGOS: Sergeant, good afternoon.
ARMENDARIZ: Good afternoon.
GERAGOS: You had gone to the marina, I think, prior to those May dates,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: In fact, didn't you interview a City of Berkeley gardener on
December 27th?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
DISTASO: Objection. Goes beyond the scope of direct.
JUDGE: Sustained.
GERAGOS: It goes to, do you want me to recall him as my witness? I can
do that.
JUDGE: If he's going to object to it, then I have to sustain the
objection.
GERAGOS: I would ask the Court allow me to save time, call him right now
as,
JUDGE: How long is this going to take?
GERAGOS: Just about three or four m inutes.
JUDGE: I'll let you go into it so we don't have to recall another
witness.
GERAGOS: Q. You had a City of Berkeley gardener who forwarded an e-mail
saying that he had seen Scott at the marina, correct?
DISTASO: Objection, your Honor. It's hearsay.
GERAGOS: Goes to the,
DISTASO: Doesn't go to the reasonableness of this officer's
conduct.
GERAGOS: Absolutely does go to reasonableness.
JUDGE: Well, I don't know how this is going to play out. Really, it is
hearsay.
GERAGOS: I understand that. But it does go to reasonableness of the
investigation. And precisely it's ultimately 1250 state of mind of
my client, who was trying to get this, get anybody to believe that
that's where he was in the Berkeley Marina.
JUDGE: Okay. I'll instruct the jury, this ine 8 is not being offered
for the truth.
DISTASO: I understand that. But,
GERAGOS: We have named the witness who is going to testify. I'm trying
to show a separate issue, which is the fact that my client was
trying to prove to the police,
JUDGE: By letting you go beyond the scope of direct, allowing him to
getting into deep water. Ought to go back to my original
ruling.
GERAGOS: We don't want to go in deep water.
GERAGOS: What was the low tide?
JUDGE: If you pardon the expression, right?
GERAGOS: Q. What was the low tide, do you know?
ARMENDARIZ: At what day and time were you referring to, sir?
GERAGOS: Well, January, that first week, low tide in Berkeley, I show
you a report. Does that refresh your recollection?
ARMENDARIZ: That's not my report. That's done by Officer Galvan from,
JUDGE: The question is, does this refresh your recollection?
line GERAGOS: It could be anybody's report.
GERAGOS: Does the refresh your recollection?
JUDGE: Does it refresh your recollection, officer?
ARMENDARIZ: No.
GERAGOS: Q. Well, do you know, as you sit there, what low tide generally
is in the Berkeley Marina?
ARMENDARIZ: No, I don't.
GERAGOS: When were you out there? How many times did you go out and do
the search?
ARMENDARIZ: As stated earlier, six times.
GERAGOS: During that six times it never, nobody ever discussed, you
didn't ever inquire as to what the depth was during low
tide?
ARMENDARIZ: Not specifically, no.
GERAGOS: Okay. Were you ever told, or did you ever see the divers
actually going into the water?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes.
GERAGOS: Okay. Could you see the divers when they were in the water?
Could you see the backs of their head as they are feeling around
on the ground?
ARMENDARIZ: No.
GERAGOS: No?
ARMENDARIZ: No.
GERAGOS: Now. When you went out, how many times would you say you have
been to the marina total? I know you said six. Did you go, that
was after the bodies were found, correct? Six times after the
bodies were found searching in the Bay, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Right.
GERAGOS: You have been to the marina numerous times before that, hadn't
you?
ARMENDARIZ: I have been there a few times before, correct.
GERAGOS: Now, the times that you went afterwards, let's take them
separately. May 10th, who did you go with on that date?
ARMENDARIZ: On May 10th I went out with the San Mateo County Sheriff's
Search and Rescue Marine Unit.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you had been out there the first time on December
30th; is that correct?
DISTASO: Objection, your Honor. Goes beyond the scope of direct.
JUDGE: I'll permit it. Go ahead.
GERAGOS: You had gone out there to determine whether or not there were
any live-aboard berthers at the marina who had seen Scott
Peterson, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And when you were doing that, you received some
information from one of the people in the marina as to who the
live-aboard berthers were, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: And you did that so you could go and find those people and
interview them and see whether or not there was anybody who saw
him at the marina, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Then you wanted to coordinate, or you started to
coordinate with another officer an extensive water-land search for
the Berkeley, Albany, and Richmond area; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's not correct.
GERAGOS: Oh. Well, did you contact, I'm showing you 21626.
ARMENDARIZ: I did not coordinate the extensive investigation.
GERAGOS: I asked if you contacted someone to help coordinate it. Is that
what happened?
ARMENDARIZ: That 's not correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. So you didn't contact somebody to help coordinate an
extensive water search? When they write that report, that's just
wrong?
ARMENDARIZ: May have asked for assistance from other agencies; but I asked
them to coordinate the search? No.
GERAGOS: Who was that you that you contacted?
ARMENDARIZ: I asked Officer Galvan from the Berkeley Police Department to
assist. However, I was not the one that was coordinating the
search. Detective Dodge Hendee was the one who was coordinating
the extensive search.
GERAGOS: But you were the one who made contact; isn't that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: I made contact with Officer Galvan on the 27th of December of
2002, my first time I arrived at the Berkeley Marina.
GERAGOS: And on January 4th, you had contacted them, because you wanted
help coordinating an extensive water-land search; isn't that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: He may have put that in the report, like you showed me . But,
no, that may have been done by a Detective Dodge Hendee.
GERAGOS: Okay. So this, what I showed you if this report, that's
wrong.
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, where is the Berkeley, Albany, Richmond area?
ARMENDARIZ: What are you referring to, sir?
GERAGOS: I'm referring to the report which says there was going to be an
extensive land-water search in the Berkeley, Albany, Richmond
area. Do you know where that is?
ARMENDARIZ: It's in the Bay Area.
GERAGOS: Okay. Do you know, were you, there was there a search done on
January 4th?
ARMENDARIZ: The search that I'm familiar with was a search that was
coordinated in the Bay itself.
GERAGOS: When was that?
ARMENDARIZ: That started on May 16th, and it was the entire week. However,
I only participated on May 16th, 17th and 18th.
GERAGOS: So you didn't have anything to do, it's your testimony today ,
with the January 4th multiagency search of the Berkeley, Albany,
Richmond area? Once again I'll show you 21626, see if that
refreshes your recollection. See, read from there to there.
ARMENDARIZ: I did not participate in the search on January 4th.
GERAGOS: And so you just called, the best of your memory is, you called
and asked for assistance. You didn't help, or didn't ask to
coordinate it; isn't that what your testimony is?
ARMENDARIZ: For the January 4th, that's correct. I didn't coordinate the
search.
GERAGOS: Are you looking at something in order to refresh your
recollection?
ARMENDARIZ: The exact same report you just showed me.
GERAGOS: Actually it's not the, this is 2828.
ARMENDARIZ: I'm sorry.
GERAGOS: Right that's the page. Does that refresh your recollection as
to what involvement you had on January 4th?
ARMENDARIZ: I didn't coordinate the search for January 4th.
GERAGOS: So you have reviewed this report, and report is wrong; is that
a fair statement?
ARMENDARIZ: For January 4th, correct. I did not coordinate the search of
January 4th.
GERAGOS: Then this report, do you know who prepared this report?
ARMENDARIZ: Officer Galvan.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, the May 10th search, was Dodge Hendee with you? If
it helps you, I have got 21725. And it appears to be a report by
Detective Rick Armendariz.
ARMENDARIZ: No, it was not.
GERAGOS: You put that on May 9th, Detective Dodge Hendee informed,
Hendee informed you that he was coordinating further searches; is
that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. You also wrote Detective Hendee arranged for me, that
means you, right? To meet with the San Mateo Marine unit on May
10th. Is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct. Like I stated, Detective Hendee was involved, in
charge of coordinating these searches.
GERAGOS: Detective Hendee informed you that the search had 8 some
specific grid areas that you were supposed to go looking look at,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Now, it's your understanding that there was an identification
of an area that had a probability of finding something of
evidentiary value; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct. That was the information that was relayed to me.
GERAGOS: Okay. That was based on the U.S. Geological Survey,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Can you show the jury where on that map that area
was?
ARMENDARIZ: It was the same map identified earlier with Prosecutor
Distaso.
JUDGE: Sergeant, there is a pointer there somewhere.
DISTASO: Hanging on the board.
JUDGE: Top board.
GERAGOS: Q. Right up there.
ARMENDARIZ: This is just a general area. It was to the southeast of the
Brooks Island.
GERAGOS: Okay. And that area there was what was identified, based on an
U.S. Geological Survey, as the probable area where you would find
something, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's my understanding. That was related to me, correct.
GERAGOS: You were given GPS coordinates, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: And then I assume when you went out to search, that you had
some kind of GPS machine that would then identify the specific area and the
grid area that you were to search, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Then you went out there, what, you also took, let's see.
Did you depart from the San Mateo Marina?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Where is the San Mateo Marina on this map?
ARMENDARIZ: I don't know if it's actually on this map or not. But it's on
the west side of the Bay, south of Treasure Island, in this
general area.
GERAGOS: Okay. So that's the area where you were, where you were to look
at based upon what the calculations were, right?
ARMENDARIZ: No. I answered your question, where is the San Mateo Bay
Marina. That's the general area where we departed from.
GERAGOS: Did you depart from the San Mateo Marina in a San Mateo Marine
unit?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And when you went, and you went to the specific location.
That was a coordinate that was about a half-mile square perimeter;
is that right?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: And then this was with the San Mateo County Sheriff's Search
and Rescue Unit, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: You had a number of Sheriff's volunteers, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: On board, on the boat, correct.
GERAGOS: One, two, three, four, five, six of them?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: You left the marina at about 7:45?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, once you got to the specific location, you then
lowered out the side sonar, correct.
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And that started about 9:00 o'clock, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And that started on the southwest corner of the grid, and
then you traveled north and south within the grid itself,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And during the search, you had two of the Sheriff's
volunteers operating the Side-Scan Sonar, right?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: One of the other volunteers operated the boat?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Now, you did locate several items of interest, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Images on the Side-Scan Sonar.
GERAGOS: Right. Now, when we say images on the Side-Scan Sonar, we have
explained this before. But if I have got it correct, there is, on
the boat, there is a screen or a monitor of some kind; is that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: You lower this torpedo thing into the water, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: You are on the boat, and somebody is looking, more than one
person is looking at the monitor?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: And then you can see what you describe as items of interest for
the divers to go down and pick up, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct, at a later time.
GERAGOS: Okay. You scan the images, meaning that when an image pops up,
if it's something of interest, somebody pushes a button of some
kind on the keyboard, and it prints out a photograph of that
image, right?
ARMENDARIZ: That's not correct.
GERAGOS: Well, did you scan the images?
ARMENDARIZ: The process is, when the image is seen on the screen, it's
saved on the hard drive of the computer. There is nothing that's
printed right then and there.
GERAGOS: Okay. Well, when you located those items, did the, did you
photograph the scanned images?
ARMENDARIZ: To clarify what you are saying, as far as photographs, the
image that is shown on the Side-Scan Sonar screen is saved. That
image is saved on to the hard drive.
GERAGOS: Well, you said that you scanned it. Scanned images were
photographed. Isn't that what you wrote down?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct. I just wanted to clarify that terminology of
photograph. The photograph is on screen.
GERAGOS: I understand. But you saved it. The bottom line is, you found
items of interest. They were saved on the screen, or they were
saved in the hard drive from what you saw on the screen,
right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Then at 2:00 o'clock, you had equipment problems and the
weather, so you didn't continue the search; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: The equipment problems was the fact we lost the sonar.
GERAGOS: Now, at that point you had searched about a third of the grid
of that whole area, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's approximately, correct.
GERAGOS: Then you had, at that point, GPS computer generated a track of your search, right?
ARMENDARIZ: The track is saved on the hard drive.
GERAGOS: Okay. Well, so you had a record of where you had line 16
searched already.
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Correct? Then you also saved all of the scanned images of these
items of interest?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And then you decided that you would go back out, what, at
about six days?
ARMENDARIZ: To what date are you referring to?
GERAGOS: You went out, if I understand correctly, all of that that we
just went through was on May 10th?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Then you go back on May 16th; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, on May 16th, it was your plan, or actually was Dodge
Hendee's plan to have a week-long coordinated, comprehensive water
search of the San Francisco Bay, correct. Certain portions of the
Bay, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Right. Certain portions of the Bay was based upon the U.S.
Geological calculations.
GERAGOS: What the probability was that you would find some evidence
related to this case, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And so that you decided that on May 16th there was going
to be a week-long effort in order to search this area,
right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. So you then had multiple law enforcement agencies that
became involved in this search, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct. I just want to clarify something. You are saying that
I decided, I made the decisions. Those decisions weren't by me.
They were coordinated. I participated in those.
GERAGOS: Well, that's, you are here to testify, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay.
ARMENDARIZ: On what I did.
GERAGOS: You are here to testify what you did, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: You are from Modesto PD, right?
ARMENDARIZ: I think that was covered, correct.
GERAGOS: So if you are here from Modesto PD to testify, can you tell me
what other agencies were there with you on, starting on the
16th?
ARMENDARIZ: What I'm referring to is the 21788. And it's pag e six of
seven, drawn up by Detective Hendee. And he lists the various
agencies that were involved, which were consisting of, but were
not limited to, the U.S. Coast Guard, San Mateo Sheriff's Team,
San Luis Obispo Sheriff's Department, Berkeley PD, Contra Costa
Sheriff's Department, San Francisco Police Department, Richmond
Police Department, East Bay Regional Park Police Department.
GERAGOS: Let me ask you this, might make it a little bit faster. Is this
21788 Bates stamp, is that what you are looking at?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Somebody did an Excel program basically, inputted all the
different agencies on each day and who was involved, what kind of
equipment, and who from MPD was there?
ARMENDARIZ: Looks like it was authored by Detective Dodge Hendee.
GERAGOS: The best of your recollection, I'd like to mark this next in
order.
JUDGE: That will be triple F.
GERAGOS: Best of your recollection, is that an accurate rendition or
compilation of the agencies and the personnel that were involved
on those specific days?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes. I believe we had some changes, last minute, some agencies
coming in late and not participating, other agencies staffing
additional staff. But, yes. Like to add, can I finish the
question?
GERAGOS: Yes.
ARMENDARIZ: And I wanted to add we also had private companies that assisted
in the search.
JUDGE: Get the light. I can't even see it from here.
GERAGOS: The first day, which is May 16th, this is a log that is
entitled "Daily Water Operations"; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: So on the first day that you went back out there after the
10th, if I understand you correctly, on the 10th you had already
done one third of this area, this grid, right?
ARMENDARIZ: That's not correct. If I can elaborate.
GERAGOS: Sure.
ARMENDARIZ: There were numerous grid boxes. When we searched on the 10th we
only did one box grid.
GERAGOS: Now, on the 16th, you had a Coast Guard,
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: What's Marine Number 1?
ARMENDARIZ: That was an, if I can refer to my notes, refresh my
recollection. That was the FBI Dive Team. However, they were on a
Marin County Sheriff's Department boat.
GERAGOS: Okay. Also had San Mateo. That was a side sonar, Side-Scan
Sonar operation that was on one of the San Mateo boats?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: So we had three there. Wing Stocks. Was that another private
vessel?
ARMENDARIZ: That was a private company correct.
GERAGOS: Which also had a Side-Scan Sonar?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: You had a San Luis Obispo. That was a municipal boat,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Police Department, correct. City police department.
GERAGOS: Also equipped with Side-Scan Sonar; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Now, when you have MPD over there, does that mean on each of
these boats there is a Modesto Police Department officer that's
accompanying either the FBI, or somebody from the Command Center,
or one of these other agencies?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And then you were on the San Luis Obispo one,
right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: You also had a Contra Costa Dive Team with you?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And then what was this one here, the Marin Number
2?
ARMENDARIZ: Marin County had a second boat that,
GERAGOS: How about Berkeley?
ARMENDARIZ: Berkeley Police Department had a boat.
GERAGOS: So we had two, four, six, eight boats out there?
ARMENDARIZ: The Berkeley Police Department and the Marin Number 2 were
assigned more for perimeter security than actual searches.
GERAGOS: So where it says perimeter shuttle here, they are keeping
people away. Whether it's pleasure boaters, or fishermen, or news
media, or anything else, but we have got six boats that are
working and searching, involves three separate side sonar,
Side-Scan Sonars and FBI Dive Team, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: How long were you out on May 16th? If you can just tell me what
page you are referring to to refresh your recollection with.
ARMENDARIZ: Sure. We launched at Emeryville Marina at 10:30. And didn't
indicate the time we secured. But I know it was consistent with
May 17th, which is, which was about approximately 12:30 to 1:00
o'clock.
GERAGOS: Okay. And is it safe to say you found nothing that related to
this case?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
<evening recess>
July 12, 2004
GERAGOS: Sergeant, when we left off, I believe that we were talking
about the 16th; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: I believe so.
GERAGOS: Okay. On the 16th, the searches that you had gone through
involved several boats, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And you were on one of those boats; is that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. The boat that you were on, do you remember who was
operating the side sonar, Side-Scan Sonar?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, I do.
GERAGOS: Okay. Was that somebody from the Sheriff's Department?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, it was.
GERAGOS: Now, the, specifically we went over this. The boat you were on
was the one that provided by San Luis Obispo, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: And as we indicated before, the other three, Contra Costa,
Marin and Berkeley, were just, they were basically around the
perimeter of the area, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: As well as shuttling equipment and staff from boat to
boat.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, on May 16th, what's the total amount of time that
that search took place for that total water operation? If you are
referring to a page could you also let me know?
ARMENDARIZ: Referring, yes. Referring to 21727, 21728, starting with May
16th. We actually departed from the Emeryville Marina. Launched at
approximately 10:30 in the morning. And we actually arrived to the
location where we began the search at 11:30 in the morning. We
continued the search, it's not indicated in my report, but it was
consistent with the following days. We concluded at approximately
1:00 o'clock.
GERAGOS: Okay. And safe to say that you, after that whatever number of
hours that that calculates out to, that there was no recovery of
any evidence related to this case, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: I can only speak for the boat that I was on, and there was
not.
GERAGOS: Now, on the 17th, same, we have the same setup here. It was a
Saturday. There was the boat names that are here. You have got the
two that show for perimeter and for shuttle, which is, once again,
Marin boat, and the Berkeley PD boat, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's what the chart indicates. I can only testify to the boat
that I was on and the days that, what happened the day the boat
that I was on.
GERAGOS: Are you aware that there were four Side-Scan Sonars out there
searching this grid area on that date?
ARMENDARIZ: I was aware there was more than one, approximate number. You
would have to refer to the detective who was on each one of those
boats.
GERAGOS: Okay. Do you know what the Wing Stocks and Gene Ralston, San
Mateo, San Luis Obispo are?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, they were there as well.
GERAGOS: Best of your knowledge all of them had Side-Scan Sonar that
they were operating. That's your understanding of what this search
operation was?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Best of your understanding on that date there was no evidence
recovered in that grid search by those number of boats, and by
those people, including the FBI Dive Team, Command Center, the
four Side-Scan Sonars and the Contra Costa Dive Team? As best as
you know, nobody reported to you, you didn't see any evidence
recovered whatsoever, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: I can only testify to the boat that I was on. And the only item
that we recovered off the boat that I was on was a rope that was
approximately 23 feet long.
GERAGOS: Okay. Did you put that in your report?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, I did. It's on page 21728.
GERAGOS: Now, that rope that was recovered, was that on the bottom of
the sea floor?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, it was.
GERAGOS: Okay. Presumably the Side-Scan Sonar was such that you could
drop it down, you could spot a rope on the sea floor?
ARMENDARIZ: No, that's not correct. On May 17th, I was with the FBI Dive
Team, and they were not using the Side-Scan Sonar. They were
actually diving on a grid specifically designated for them. And
they were focusing on just diving, searching, doing different grid
searching for that area.
JUDGE: Mr. Geragos, I think you misspoke. You said the sea floor. It's
the bay floor. They all are thinking they are working in the
Pacific Ocean some place. MR. GERAGOS: Q. Were you in
the Bay?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, we were.
GERAGOS: Okay. On the bay floor the divers actually went down and were
able to recover a rope?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And, apparent to you, was there any complaint on the 17th
that the Federal Bureau of Investigation Search and Recovery Team
was unable to find stuff on the Bay floor?
ARMENDARIZ: If you are asking if the FBI complained about finding stuff,
the complaint was that difficulty, the undercurrent under the
water, difficulty searching, the visibility being zero, and the
fact they were doing a hand search.
GERAGOS: And the hand search produced a rope. They found a rope the
floor of the Bay, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: In that particular area, correct.
GERAGOS: And that was the specific area that had been listed as a
probability by the U.S. Geological Service, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: It was within a grid, correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, that grid was, what you do as you go out there, and
you had global positioning devices; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: And would you get coordinates that you would mark off in the
bay there, based upon the global positioning devices,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: And then you would mark off those areas, either by these
perimeter boats and by some other kind of a buoy, and then the
divers would basically go back and forth and search the floor; is
that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Specifically with the boat that I was on on May 17th, that's
what we did. FBI Dive Team marked off the grid location, and then
they entered the water, began doing a hand search under the bay
water for any items that they can locate.
GERAGOS: And, specifically, they entered the water on the 17th at
approximately 7:25 in the morning, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And after about four hours, this was about a half mile
square area, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Go down the end of your page. You identified as a half mile
square perimeter, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct. The perimeter the FBI searched.
GERAGOS: Okay. So they were down there. How many divers did you see down
there for four hours?
ARMENDARIZ: They would rotate the divers. There was two divers down in the
water searching.
GERAGOS: Okay. They searched the entire grid area, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: No, we did not complete the search that day.
GERAGOS: Okay. So you did, what, roughly five hours that you were on the
boat before you called it a day?
ARMENDARIZ: Due to the deteriorating weather condition and the undercurrent
in the water.
GERAGOS: Then you went, you came back on the 18th, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Now, on the 18th, same kind of a deal. We had a number of
boats, number of Side-Scan Sonars, and at least three dive teams,
correct? According to the chart that we have got up here that's
been marked as triple F.
ARMENDARIZ: According to be chart, that is what the chart indicates. You
would have to check with Detective Hendee who exactly showed up
for that day, and who were the divers, and how many divers we had
that day.
GERAGOS: You were with the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Dive, Marine
Dive Unit, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: On May 18th I was with the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Dive
Team, and we actually were not diving. We were using the Side-Scan
Sonar that day.
GERAGOS: Okay. You started about 6:45 in the morning?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: And you were out there until the divers, well, according to
your report, at least, there were divers there that day; is that
correct? Showing up about two thirds the way down on 21729. You
weren't just using the Side-Scan Sonar. You had divers
there.
ARMENDARIZ: I'm sorry, I did make an error. That's correct. On May 18th we
also had divers with the Contra Costa County Sheriff's
Department.
GERAGOS: And, once again, the divers had GPS, global positioning coordinates. They went into the water at
6:45 in the morning, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: They continued their search until one in the afternoon,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. What did they find?
ARMENDARIZ: On this day they did not recover anything related to this
case.
GERAGOS: Didn't find any anchors. They didn't find any remains. Didn't
find anything, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: I can't speak for what the divers found under the water. They
did not bring up anything to the boat to me on that day. They
could have found items. I don't know. You would have to speak to
the divers to find out exactly what, if anything, they located
underneath the sea.
GERAGOS: If they found some cement anchors, they would left them down on
the bay floor?
ARMENDARIZ: No. But there was, I know there is a lot of garbage underneath
the bay.
GERAGOS: Well, there were other searches. There is a lot of garbage down
there. They brought the garbage up, correct? Back in September
they brought up a number of items that were garbage,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That,
GERAGOS: Beer bottles, tea glass bottles, small items of garbage were
brought up repeatedly from the bay floor by the divers,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Now, the next day, let's see. The 19th, were you out there
then? May 19th?
ARMENDARIZ: No, I was not.
GERAGOS: Okay. As far as you know, did the search go on May 19th and May
20th without you?
ARMENDARIZ: This search was, continued to go on. And I did not participate
on the 19th or the 20th.
GERAGOS: Okay. Then I assume the next search that you were on was in
September.e ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. So if I have got, if I understand this correctly, you had
been out to the bay some time in December, right?
ARMENDARIZ: To the marina, correct.
GERAGOS: To the marina, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Then you went out. And for the first three days of this search
in May, this is after Laci and Conner's remains were found, you
were assigned to search to see if you could find any evidence in
this area that the U.S. Geological had indicated had a high
probability, area, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: You did the search there. As far as you know, you didn't find
anything of any evidentiary value, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: On the specific boat that I was on, correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Then, once again, you are assigned out there, I assume
assigned out there some time in September to do another search,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, in, what was the, September 18th was the first day
you went back out there?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Now, on September 18th, you were once again with a number of
people from Contra Costa County Sheriff's Office, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct. If I can just take a step back. Actually went back out
on September 11th.
GERAGOS: What did you do on September 11th?
ARMENDARIZ: Just to, well, we went out and searched the bay again. But,
however, on this particular search, we were looking at specific
targets, as compared to the May searches where we were just
looking at grids and covering grids, and searching general areas.
When we went back on September 11th, we went back and were given
specific locations to go out and dive.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, as far as when you say specific targets, did you
understand that what happened is, in the interim, some time after
May, that somebody had mapped the floor of the Bay?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And mapped the floor of the bay by using Side-Scan Sonar,
which basically would take pictures of the entire floor of the
bay, or the area that was, that had been marked as the perimeter,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Well, let me clarify. We did not map the bay when Side-Scan
Sonar went down on May the May 16th and those days. The sonar
would go down. We would see items of interest; and, again, these
are not pictures that are clear and concise. We're looking at
shapes, size and shadows. And anything that would look remotely
interesting, we would save those, mark the GPS location. Those photographs were then analyzed by Detective
Dodge Hendee. You would have to check with him as far as how they
were able to weed through those. Then on September 11th is when we
went out and dove on specific items.
GERAGOS: Well, specifically, after the May searches, in July didn't the
Modesto Police Department hire a firm to map out positions or
portions of the bottom of the San Francisco Bay with something
that was called a REMUS, R-E-M-U-S?
ARMENDARIZ: I couldn't answer that. I wasn't a party of that. I wasn't
privy to that information.
GERAGOS: Okay. Were you aware that the Modesto Police Department, after
May, and after the Side-Scan Sonar, had, in fact, mapped out the
entire, or hired a firm to map off the entire bottom of the
bay?
ARMENDARIZ: Again I was not aware of the followup that was being done. I
was not privy to that information.
GERAGOS: Were you aware that, you said there were targets. And let me
show you a report. This is marked as 33651. Were you aware that
the targets that you were looking at was based upon this REMUS
device that had been supplied by this commercial firm which gave
in excess of a couple hundred targets to dive on?
ARMENDARIZ: The item, the report you are showing me is a 7 report that was
written by Detective Dodge Hendee, and he would be the person that
you would need to contact regarding those questions specifically
with that. The only information that I was aware of on the 11th,
there were specific locations we were to dive on, and that's what
we did.
GERAGOS: Well, did you know, in Dodge Hendee's report on September 11th,
that, that specifically what they are referring to, what they are
actually going to do was to dive on the targets that were mapped
out by this company?
DISTASO: Objection, your Honor. Calls for facts not in evidence.
JUDGE: Sustained.
GERAGOS: Are you aware that that's why you were sent back out
there?
ARMENDARIZ: The only information that I was privy to was the fact that
there was an additional followup. And with the Side-Scan Sonars
that we have done May 16th, there were specific locations for us
to dive on in September. And that was the only information that I
was privy to.
GERAGOS: Now, when you went back out there, you started on September
11th, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: And you met with the Contra Costa Emergency Services Dive
Recovery Team, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: You took Dive Boat Number One, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: I don't remember specifically what number we were identified
as. But, yes, I did go out with Contra Costa County Dive and
Rescue Team.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, there was a list of items that were picked up on
those dives; is that correct? Prepared by you. I'm looking at
33094.
ARMENDARIZ: You are looking at 33094, you are referring to September
18th?
GERAGOS: That's correct.
ARMENDARIZ: You are asking me questions on September 11th.
GERAGOS: No. You started on September 11th, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: You were out there for how long?
ARMENDARIZ: I was there September 11th, and I went back September
18th.
GERAGOS: Okay. When you went back on September 18th, you did a
chronology, or at least an itemization of all the GPS points, the time in, the time out, and what was located, and
who the divers were, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, to go through here, the first two locations, these
targets that you had, nothing was located, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: The third location the divers found a wooden stick,
right?
ARMENDARIZ: You are referring to F45. And that's correct.
GERAGOS: How big was this wooden stick?
ARMENDARIZ: There is a photograph of it on 33096. And it was F45.
GERAGOS: How big would you estimate it to be?
ARMENDARIZ: There is a ruler in the photograph, which is a foot long. And
looks like it's approximately foot and half, possibly about two
feet long.
GERAGOS: So apparently the, whatever, however you got these targets, the
divers were able to find pieces of wood that were a foot and a
half long, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct. They went to the dive location. And in that general
dive location was a piece of wood that they found.
GERAGOS: You don't know what it was that triggered whether they saw this
picture of the wooden stick first, but you know that there was a
target location where they were supposed to dive, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: And you would identify that as a GPS point, correct? A global positioning point where the divers
were instructed, hey, we have got a target down here, so this is
where it is, go down and find it. They went down and found it, and
it was a one-foot or foot-and-a-half wooden stick, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Now, the next thing that actually was found, at least in your
report, is in a location called F26; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, F26 is, once again, a specific area of the bay that
was marked off as having a target of, or some kind of item of
interest. You don't know how it was that they saw this. You know
this was something down on the bottom of the bay floor,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: The divers went down there; and, sure enough, after they had
been down there for about twenty minutes, what did they
find?
ARMENDARIZ: They recovered a tire.
GERAGOS: How big was the tire? Can you show the jury with your hands
approximately how, what size that tire was?
ARMENDARIZ: It was a standard automobile tire.
GERAGOS: Okay. And apparently somebody could see that, and was on the
Side-Scan Sonar or this other device, you don't know when, but it
was target. They went down there, within twenty minutes they found
it, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: No. I can't tell you that that's the item they saw on the
Side-Scan Sonar. I can tell you that when we went down on that
particular geographical area, that within the general area of that
location there was a tire that was recovered.
GERAGOS: Anything else that was recovered from F26?
ARMENDARIZ: No. That was the only thing that was recovered.
GERAGOS: They were down there for twenty minutes, right?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: They found an item, turned out to be a tire, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, that's what I said.
GERAGOS: Okay. What about F24? They go down to another specific area on
the bay floor, find something there?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes.
GERAGOS: Okay. They were down there for two minutes; is that correct?
The divers went down, and within two minutes they found the
object, right?
ARMENDARIZ: They found an object, right.
GERAGOS: They found an object. What was that object?
ARMENDARIZ: There was a pipe, a metal pipe approximately, looking at the
photograph on 33096, it was an approximate three-foot-long metal
pipe.
GERAGOS: How thick was the metal pipe?
ARMENDARIZ: I'm looking at the photograph at 33026. It was approximately an
inch to inch and a half in diameter.
GERAGOS: Apparently somebody identified a target in this specific area
that was about three feet by an inch to inch and a half?
ARMENDARIZ: That's just an estimation looking at the photograph,
correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. They recovered. And the divers, they brought the pipe up,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Then they have another location, which would be the next grid
over, which was F25. Once again, this was a target or targeted
area for the divers to go down there, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: And they found another tire there, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: They brought that tire up?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Then they went to a couple of other locations, looks like one,
two, three, four, five, then the next that they went to was B12;
is that right?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Once again, that's just a letter and number that's assigned to
a specific grid area on the bottom of the floor?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Now, they found a plastic bag?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: So apparently at least the visibility, or the, however it was
determined that there was a target down there, was sophisticated
enough that it could find a plastic bag on the bay floor,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: I'm not going to agree to that statement. I can state that that
specific target area within that search area, there was a bag that
was recovered within that area.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, is this different than the, this plastic bag, was
that retained in evidence?
ARMENDARIZ: These items were documented photographed and were,
GERAGOS: Thrown away?
ARMENDARIZ: Thrown away after they were, I believe they were not related to
this case.
GERAGOS: They weren't tested by anybody, were they?
ARMENDARIZ: No.
GERAGOS: Okay. Nobody did, you didn't send them to the crime lab, or
anything, did you, as far as you know?
ARMENDARIZ: No.
GERAGOS: So what you did, you photographed it, somebody photographed it,
then they just determined it wasn't related, they threw it
away?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Who made that determination that it wasn't related?
ARMENDARIZ: Referred the information to Detective Dodge Hendee.
GERAGOS: Now, were there any other items that you went down on the 18th
and determined and found in these target areas, besides the ones
we have just gone through?
ARMENDARIZ:
Well, we returned, Sergeant Christensen from the Contra Costa
County Sheriff's Department located an empty bag, that was a
plastic bag that was floating in the general area of the
search.
GERAGOS: That was a gravel bag?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. That's the gravel bag was that specifically photographed
and thrown away?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct. Again, referred to Detective Dodge
Hendee.
GERAGOS: Now, on September 11th, you did the same thing we just went
through with the jury for September 18th, correct? I'm referring
you to 33092.
ARMENDARIZ: Yes, correct. I went to the Contra Costa County Sheriff's
Department with their dive team.
GERAGOS: The first three areas that you went to, you didn't locate
anything, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Actually the first four. Then the fifth one, which was marked
as F47, that's another grid area, right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. And they went down looking for a target, and after ten
minutes they came up with a tea glass bottle?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: How big is the tea glass bottle?
ARMENDARIZ: It's photographed in 33026. And it's a standard, this is an
estimate, approximately twelve-ounce tea bottle, glass tea
bottle.
GERAGOS: When you say standard, like a Snapple bottle?
ARMENDARIZ: No, it was a little larger than a Snapple bottle.
GERAGOS: And apparently they were able to, divers were able to find that
on the bottom of the bay floor?
ARMENDARIZ: They recovered that from the bay.
GERAGOS: What page is the picture there?
ARMENDARIZ: 33096.
GERAGOS: And what was the next thing that was found on the bottom of the
floor of the bay?
ARMENDARIZ: There was F44. There was a piece of wood which I indicated was
approximately two feet long, three inches wide.
GERAGOS: Okay. How many inches?
ARMENDARIZ: Piece of wood, two feet long, and three inches wide,
approximately.
GERAGOS: Apparently that was such that the divers could see it, find it,
and retrieve it and bring it up so you could photograph it; is
that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: I don't know if they were able to see it, but they recovered it
from under water and brought it up to the boat.
GERAGOS: Okay. The pictures that you are talking about, I'd like to,
which I think already identified by the Bates number stamp. These
the same pictures?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Mark these has defense next in order.
JUDGE: Triple G. Copy of Pictures
Marked as Exhibit GGG for identification.
D. HARRIS: With the usual copying and substituting the
copy.
GERAGOS: Just for the time being I'll stip.
JUDGE: Stipulate a copy can be substituted?
D. HARRIS: Yes.
GERAGOS: Now, the pictures of the items that you found, specifically
this is the tea bottle right here?
ARMENDARIZ: F47, correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, we have got F44 there. What's that?
ARMENDARIZ: F44 is the piece of wood that was approximately two feet long
and three inches wide.
GERAGOS: Okay. So on the bottom of the bay floor there is piece of wood
that's about 24 inches by three inches. Was there anything
attached to it? Or was it just a piece of this, is it right
here?
ARMENDARIZ: That's it. Next to it is a paper ruler.
GERAGOS: That right?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. The paper ruler is to just show by comparison what the
size of the piece of wood is. That's why you laid it next to
it?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. So that's on the bottom of the bay floor. They are able
to find that on the bottom of the bay floor, right?
ARMENDARIZ: That was recovered in that area, correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. How about A10? What is A10?
ARMENDARIZ: A10 is an another white plastic bag.
GERAGOS: Now, this white plastic bag on A10, is that, was there anything
in the bag?
ARMENDARIZ: No.
GERAGOS: So apparently the divers could find on the bottom of the bay
floor a plastic bag with nothing in it, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, the F5. Do we have that, that's right here. What is
that?
ARMENDARIZ: That is a cloth sail.
GERAGOS: A what?
ARMENDARIZ: A cloth sail.
GERAGOS: How large is that?
ARMENDARIZ: Other than the photograph that's depicted on 33096, I did not
measure it.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, the A14, right here. They also located that. And
that was from yet another, by the way, every time you have got the
letter and the number in there, that refers to another grid area,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: And that's one of these target areas that you were given both
on the 11th and the 18th, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: And so they found there was a target area, somebody was able
to, either through side-scan, or through mapping, or something, to
find something on the floor and they found a blue square bucket,
right?
ARMENDARIZ: Blue square bucket was the item that was recovered by the dive
team that brought that up to the boat, correct.
GERAGOS: How about the A15? What is that?
ARMENDARIZ: A15 was another bucket that was recovered from the dive
team.
GERAGOS: Okay. A7?
ARMENDARIZ: A7 was a beer can that was located.
GERAGOS: So apparently they had, this was so sophisticated that they
could actually spot a target as small as a beer can and recover
that?
DISTASO: Objection, your Honor. It's argumentative.
JUDGE: Sustained.
GERAGOS: The beer can that they pulled up, you photographed. I assume
you figured there was no evidentiary value, threw it away?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. The sail we talked about. What's A45?
ARMENDARIZ: A45 was a search from the 18th. That was a wooden stick.
GERAGOS: Okay. And the B12? Right there.
ARMENDARIZ: B12 was also the search that was done on September 18th. And
that was a plastic bag.
GERAGOS: Okay. And, once again, I assume these are the rulers right
here, to give you a size or an idea of how large these items
are?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct.
GERAGOS: How long is that ruler?
ARMENDARIZ: That's a standard ruler size. Approximately twelve
inches.
GERAGOS: Okay. So all of these items are measured up against a
twelve-inch ruler that are in the pictures. How about, move it up.
Here F24, what's that?
ARMENDARIZ: F24 was what I described earlier. It was an item that was
recovered on the 18th. And it was the metal pipe.
GERAGOS: That's the pipe. Okay. And F26 and 25 are the two tires that
you described?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, the gravel bag, it's kind of hard to read here.
That's what's in this bottom picture; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Now, all of these items were recovered in the various grid
areas that were searched by the divers and the, from the various
entities, whether it be FBI, Contra Costa, or whoever,
right?
ARMENDARIZ: No, that's not correct. Items that were photographed were
recovered from the divers on the boats that I was specifically on
on September 11th and September 18th.
GERAGOS: Okay. How many of those locations did you go to? Have you
counted them?
ARMENDARIZ: For what day?
GERAGOS: Start from the 11th. Let me just suggest it. 21. Did you go to
21 grid locations, and you located, it appears, one, two, three,
four, five, six, seven items out of the 21 locations?
ARMENDARIZ: That's correct, for September 11th.
GERAGOS: Okay. September 18th how many locations did you go to?
Specifically when I say locations, we're talking about a grid area
where there was a target of interest.
ARMENDARIZ: Counting 23.
GERAGOS: Okay. And out of the those 23, you found one, two, three, four,
five, things, basically. Two tires, a pipe a stick, and a plastic
bag; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: That looks to be correct.
GERAGOS: Now, there were other searches going on in the interim, but
were you not part of them; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ: I was part of the search that was being done by the boat that I
was on.
GERAGOS: And when was that, did you go back out there, so we have
established you were out there the May dates, you were at the
marina in December, you went back out on September 11th and
September 18th?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: Any other dates you were out there searching?
ARMENDARIZ: No.
GERAGOS: Okay. And during all of the times and all of the searches that
you were out there, the sum total of evidence related to this case
that was recovered from the bottom of the bay floor, zero.
ARMENDARIZ: On the boats that I was on, correct.
GERAGOS: Thank you. I have no further questions.
Redirect Examination by Rick Distaso
DISTASO: Sergeant Armendariz, these items that we see that were found in
the Bay, obviously just garbage, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: And was that indicative of what was scattered throughout the
bottom of the San Francisco Bay?
GERAGOS: Objection. Calls for speculation.
JUDGE: Sustained.
DISTASO: Was garbage located, to your knowledge, on other boats when
people, when these searches took place?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: So these items that were we're seeing here,
GERAGOS: I would object. He's just indicated he had no knowledge of the
other boats apparently what they did.
JUDGE: He just testified, Mr. Distaso, that he could only testify as
to what was recovered on his boat.
DISTASO: Right. Let's just go down the boats that you were on. This
garbage that was recovered,
GERAGOS: Be an objection as to his characterization of garbage.
JUDGE: Call them items so we don't get these objections. These items
he's already testified he thought they were garbage.
JUDGE: Let's refer to them as items then.
DISTASO: These items that you have testified were garbage, this was,
these were items that were found, it appears, throughout the days
you were out searching in the bay?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: And these grid areas that you were given to search, about how
large were they?
ARMENDARIZ: Grids specifically were approximately quarter mile in size. And
those were the grid areas which we were, we were searching
different days.
JUDGE: Quarter mile square?
ARMENDARIZ: Yes.
DISTASO: So then the, and what would happen is, you would,
GERAGOS: Objection. Leading.
DISTASO: Well, why don't you tell us what would happen? That's even
easier. In this quarter mile square grid, how would the searches
work?
ARMENDARIZ: On the searches that we did on May 16th, again, what we were
doing, we would, we were given a grid map of the bay. And the
entire grid was approximately a mile and quarter by mile and three
quarters square in size. Within that there were grids in itself
that were approximately a quarter mile square. And on the 16th,
17th and 18th, what we would do, we would go, we would be given an
assignment, whichever square we would go to in that area, the
boats would go out, the Side-Scan Sonar, on the boat that I was
with, Side-Scan Sonar, we would begin the search up and down
either north and south, or, actually, the search we did were north
and south within that grid area using the Side-Scan Sonar
identifying any items of interest, if there was anything that was
interesting. Again, these images are not clear and concise. They
were blurry. They are black and white. We are looking at three
different areas. We are looking at the size of the item, the shape
of the item, and the shadow of the item, if you will, that's not
clear and concise. Anything that looked like to be remotely
interesting or possible item, we would identify by saving that
image, and saving it on the hard drive. We would continue the grid
search until the water conditions became, specifically the
undercurrent, because the Side-Scan Sonar is attached to the boat,
the Side-Scan Sonar would start to,
GERAGOS: Objection. Non-responsive.
JUDGE: This is narrative now.
DISTASO: Okay. Let me stop you. So something about the current would
impact how the Side-Scan Sonar worked?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
DISTASO: What was that?
ARMENDARIZ: The undercurrent.
DISTASO: Okay. And these the pictures, so the jury understands, is this
like, you know, like, are you looking at the screen, look like you
are watching a TV, TV screen of the bay floor?
ARMENDARIZ: No.
DISTASO: I mean it's an, you know, clear, like your digital image at
home where you see everything you want to see?
ARMENDARIZ: No.
DISTASO: And so these pictures that we're looking at, you said that you,
you are looking at shape and shadows. What else did you say?
ARMENDARIZ: Size, shape, and shadow.
DISTASO: So like, for example, one of those buckets like the bucket
there in A15 on the screen, what would that look like on
the,
GERAGOS: Be an objection. There is no foundation he specifically,
whenever I tried to question him about his faint knowledge of
Side-Scan Sonar,
DISTASO: Objection, your Honor. That's argumentative. It's not even
true.
JUDGE: First of all, you weren't looking at the Side-Scan Sonar, as I
understand. You were looking at the images that were portrayed on
the Side-Scan Sonar.
ARMENDARIZ: I did see the images at the time. When the deputy assigned to
it was reviewing, I would take a look over at it.
JUDGE: A15, do you recall ever looking at what was purported to be
A15, that was finally recognized.
ARMENDARIZ: Specifically A15, I couldn't say I did.
JUDGE: Next question.
DISTASO: What I just want to get out of, when you looked over the, well,
you are not an expert in evaluating these images, correct?
ARMENDARIZ: No, I'm not.
DISTASO: Just what did you see when you looked at the screen? I just
want the jury to understand. What is it that you see when you are
along at the screen?
GERAGOS: There would be an objection. It's irrelevant. The person to
testify to that is the person that's operating the Side-Scan
Sonar.
JUDGE: He's testified that he looked over the shoulder.
DISTASO: Okay. Well, that, I'm assuming he was looking at the
screen.
DISTASO: What would you observe? You said shape, shadows, and size,
right?
ARMENDARIZ: Right. And I would look at the screen. I would see dark little
images, little blurs. Can't make them out. I would ask the
operator what those images were, if it was anything related. And
sometimes they were fish. Sometimes they were just piles of mud
that accumulated under the bay. Just various items, various
shapes.
DISTASO: Counsel asked you about the visibility that the divers were
reporting, and you said they were reporting zero visibility. What
did you mean by that?
ARMENDARIZ: Black water. That they would have to do their searches with
their hands literally. They couldn't see their hand in front of
their mask.
DISTASO: So when they were down on the bottom, they were reporting they
were kind of crawling along the bottom.
GERAGOS: Objection. Hearsay. Searching with their hands.
JUDGE: It's also leading. Sustained. Jury can draw their own
conclusion, Mr. Distaso.
DISTASO: This was a question that I asked you last week, and forgot to
ask you the follow-up. Remember, you testified that on one of the
boats you were on, the San Mateo boat, lost their sonar
unit?
ARMENDARIZ: Their Side-Scan Sonar unit.
DISTASO: How long did it take them to find this?
ARMENDARIZ: They didn't recover it until approximately two weeks later on.
They actually located it on the 23rd after doing extensive
searches, even though they had a general area of where they lost
it at. They marked it when they lost it.
DISTASO: They found on it May 23rd. What day was it lost?
ARMENDARIZ: May 10th.
DISTASO: Nothing further, your Honor.
Recross Examination by Mark Geragos
GERAGOS: How big is this side scan unit that was lost?
ARMENDARIZ: As I testified couple of days ago, it was approximately five
feet in length, yellow in color. Looks like a torpedo. Weighs
approximately fifty to sixty pounds.
GERAGOS: It's five foot?
ARMENDARIZ: Approximately.
GERAGOS: About 50 or 60 pounds. And it was lost on the 11th?
ARMENDARIZ: No. It was lost on May 10th.
GERAGOS: Okay. How many times did they go out searching for it between
May 10th and May 23rd?
ARMENDARIZ: They advised they spent approximately thirty hours. They, being
specifically Deputy George Carrie.
GERAGOS: Okay. So an item that's five feet tall, that weighs fifty
pounds, they find within 30 zero on the floor of the bay; is that
right? Thirty hours worth of search. And that item that was five
foot and weighed fifty pounds, they were able to find in 30 hours?
ARMENDARIZ: That is approximately correct.
GERAGOS: What if the item was a hundred fifty-three pounds and five
feet, how long would that take?
DISTASO: Objection, your Honor. Argumentative.
JUDGE: Sustained. Argumentative. Sustained.
GERAGOS: Items that are up here on the chart which has been marked as
triple G, they were able to find those items, correct, the
divers?
ARMENDARIZ: No. They were recovered, those items in the specific
geographical area, they were given, when they do their search in
that area, those were the items that were recovered.
GERAGOS: How many specific geographical areas were you given,
total?
ARMENDARIZ: I think we went over that, covering the numbers on the 11th and
the 18th.
GERAGOS: No. You are talking about the ones that you just searched. I'm
talking about all of the search teams. How many geographical area
and targets of interest were they given?
ARMENDARIZ: You would have to check with Detective Dodge Hendee for Modesto
PD who coordinated the entire search for that week.
GERAGOS: You are aware that it was over 223 quarter-mile locations,
aren't you?
DISTASO: Objection, your Honor. Calls for speculation.
GERAGOS: To search?
JUDGE: Sustained.
GERAGOS: The divers that you were working with, you were working with
both the FBI Dive Team, and Contra Costa?
ARMENDARIZ: Correct.
GERAGOS: And, once again, how many items of evidence related to this
case did you find on your boats during all of those
searches?
DISTASO: Objection. Been asked and answered.
JUDGE: Sustained. Zero is the answer.
GERAGOS: Thank you. I have no further questions.
JUDGE: That's it?
DISTASO: I don't have anything further.
JUDGE: May this witness be excused?
GERAGOS: Yes.
DISTASO: Yes.
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