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Rick Armendariz
Witness for the People: Guilt Phase
July 7 & 12, 2004
CLERK
: Be seated. State and spell your name for the
record.
ARMENDARIZ
: Rick Armendariz. A-r-m-e-n-d-a-r-i-z.
DISTASO
: Detective, where are you employed?
ARMENDARIZ
: City of Modesto. Modesto Police Department.
DISTASO
: Your job there is as a detective?
ARMENDARIZ
: Actually since the incident of this
investigation, I became a Police Sergeant with the
department.
DISTASO
: So the proper title would be Sergeant?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: At the time of this investigation, I think you
were in the Detective Division; is that right?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
DISTASO
: And how long have you been a sworn peace officer
in California?
ARMENDARIZ
: For nine years with the Modesto Police Department
full time.
DISTASO
: As part of the investigation into the
disappearance of Laci Peterson, were you involved
in some searches of the San Francisco Bay?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, I was.
DISTASO
: And particularly I want to ask you about, I want
to ask you about a search that took place in May.
And before we go there, how many times were you
involved in searches in the Bay?
ARMENDARIZ
: Approximately six different times.
DISTASO
: And can you just give me the range of dates that
you were out there?
ARMENDARIZ
: Actually doing full searches in the Bay, May
10th,
JUDGE
: What year?
ARMENDARIZ
: Of 2003. May 16th, May 17th.
DISTASO
: Hold on a second. May 10th, May 16th?
ARMENDARIZ
: May 17th.
JUDGE
: May 17th?
ARMENDARIZ
: May 17th.
DISTASO
: Un-hun.
ARMENDARIZ
: And also September 11th and September 18th.
DISTASO
: Okay. That's five times. Is that it?
ARMENDARIZ
: May 10th. I'm sorry. May 10th, May 16th, May
17th, May 18th, September 11th and September 18th.
Sorry.
DISTASO
: And you were out searching in the Bay for what?
ARMENDARIZ
: When we were doing the grid searches with the
Side-Scan Sonar. We were looking for any evidence
related to the case, as well as any remains.
DISTASO
: And so Laci Peterson's body had washed ashore in
April; is that right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: But her body was not intact?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: So you were involved in searching the Bay for,
further searches of the Bay to attempt to locate
any other possible remains, or any other evidence?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
DISTASO
: What were the conditions like when you were on
the boat searching the Bay?
ARMENDARIZ
: Overall, unfortunately, they were really poor.
More with the water conditions. The current, both
on top of the water and the undercurrent under the
water, going in different directions. The tides in
the morning as compared to evening. At
approximately 1:00 o'clock, some time after that
time, is when the waters got really choppy, and the
divers were not able to work as well, as well as
the Side-Scan Sonar.
GERAGOS
: Objection to that.
JUDGE
: It's a narrative.
GERAGOS
: With divers and Side-Scan Sonar.
JUDGE
: First narrative answer. Number two, he searched
the Bay five or six times. We don't know what day
he's talking about.
DISTASO
: In the searches in May, was the conditions all
roughly the same?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: Is that what you were just describing to me?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: So you were on the boat, they were towing a
Side-Scan Sonar?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: If they would find something, if the sonar would
find something of interest, they would send divers
down?
ARMENDARIZ
: They would be marked and eventually later on they
would send divers down.
DISTASO
: Okay. Were you ever on the boat when the divers
actually went into the water?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, I was.
DISTASO
: And you said basically the conditions were very
difficult.
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: Was there, what did the Side-Scan Sonars look
like?
ARMENDARIZ
: They looked like a torpedo, for lack of a better
term. Approximately five feet long, with a diameter
of approximately six inches. They are yellow in
color. They weigh approximately 40 to 60 pounds in
weight. And they are towed behind a boat with a
cable that is approximately a half inch to three
quarters of an inch thick.
DISTASO
: And they, so basically they just kind ever run
behind the boat, and they shoot down these little
sonar images of the bottom of the Bay, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: And then you can read it on a screen inside the
boat?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: At some point on one of these days, did something
happen to the sonar unit?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes. Actually the first time I went out, which
was actually May 10th, we were in the, do you want
me to,
DISTASO
: Go ahead.
ARMENDARIZ
: We were in the water at approximately 2:00
o'clock. The Side-Scan Sonar, the torpedo actually
hit a sand bar underneath the water which wasn't
tracked. So they hit the Side-Scan Sonar, got stuck
in the sand bar, and immediately lost image of what
was going on.
DISTASO
: Let me stop you. Then after that happened, did
the Side-Scan Sonar somehow become dislodged from
the boat?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, it did.
DISTASO
: How did that happen?
ARMENDARIZ
: The driver of the boat turned, the propeller cut
the cable cord, which left the Side-Scan Sonar in
the water.
DISTASO
: When the sonar was lost, is this an expensive
piece of equipment?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes. It's roughly about $10,000 just for the
sonar itself.
DISTASO
: So whose boat were you on, what agency?
ARMENDARIZ
: San Mateo County Sheriff's Department.
DISTASO
: So I'm assuming they want their sonar back?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, very much so.
DISTASO
: When the sonar got lost, did they do anything,
did you see them do anything to mark the location
of that?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes. As we were doing our search, we were,
actually, they were tracking the search by the GPS.
And immediately soon as then lost the sonar, they
marked the location to be able to identify the
general location of where they lost the Side-Scan
Sonar in order to be able to come back and retrieve
it.
DISTASO
: And did you go back with the boat on that day and
anchor the boat down where you thought it might be,
and send divers to try to find it?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes. Immediately afterwards we turned around,
ran, went back to the location.
DISTASO
: What happened?
ARMENDARIZ
: The divers went down, and searching under the
water, they were not able to locate it after about
approximately an hour of searching.
DISTASO
: Did they report what the conditions and
visibility was down at the bottom?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes. They described it as being black water.
GERAGOS
: Objection. Hearsay.
JUDGE
: Sustained.
DISTASO
: Do you know what the depth of the water was
approximately where this got lost?
ARMENDARIZ
: Approximately seven feet.
DISTASO
: And can you show the jury on People's 109 just
the approximate location that you were searching
that day when the sonar unit got lost?
ARMENDARIZ
: We were southeast of Brooks Island. This general
area.
DISTASO
: You can go back to the seat. You said you also
went out on other days in May; is that right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: Was that with another different agency's sonar
unit?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes.
DISTASO
: And what agencies did you go out on the other
days?
ARMENDARIZ
: On May 16th I went out with San Luis Obispo
Sheriff's Department Diver Rescue team. We used
their Side-Scan Sonar.
DISTASO
: What about on the 17th and 18th?
ARMENDARIZ
: On May 17th I actually went out with the FBI, the
Federal Bureau of Investigation, who had their dive
team with them. They were specifically focusing
diving on certain items.
DISTASO
: And all of these times did the divers report the
conditions that you have kind of described?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes.
DISTASO
: And did they,
GERAGOS
: Objection. Hearsay. Compound, as to specifically
what they reported. It can be framed some way else.
JUDGE
: What they told him is hearsay. You can't get
around it that way. The jury can disregard what the
divers told this officer.
DISTASO
: Was anything found during any searches in May?
ARMENDARIZ
: Nothing related to the investigation.
DISTASO
: And, again, in September, the two days you went
in September, was it, did you have similar, a
similar experience with the searching that was
happening?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes.
DISTASO
: And what agencies did you go out with on those
days?
ARMENDARIZ
: On September 11th I went out with the Contra
Costa County Sheriff's Dive and Rescue Team.
DISTASO
: What about on the 18th?
ARMENDARIZ
: September 18th I again went out with the Contra
Costa County Sheriff Dive and Rescue Team.
DISTASO
: Nothing further, your Honor.
Cross Examination by Mark Geragos
GERAGOS
: Sergeant, good afternoon.
ARMENDARIZ
: Good afternoon.
GERAGOS
: You had gone to the marina, I think, prior to
those May dates, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: In fact, didn't you interview a City of Berkeley
gardener on December 27th?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
DISTASO
: Objection. Goes beyond the scope of direct.
JUDGE
: Sustained.
GERAGOS
: It goes to, do you want me to recall him as my
witness? I can do that.
JUDGE
: If he's going to object to it, then I have to
sustain the objection.
GERAGOS
: I would ask the Court allow me to save time, call
him right now as,
JUDGE
: How long is this going to take?
GERAGOS
: Just about three or four m inutes.
JUDGE
: I'll let you go into it so we don't have to
recall another witness.
GERAGOS
: Q. You had a City of Berkeley gardener who
forwarded an e-mail saying that he had seen Scott
at the marina, correct?
DISTASO
: Objection, your Honor. It's hearsay.
GERAGOS
: Goes to the,
DISTASO
: Doesn't go to the reasonableness of this
officer's conduct.
GERAGOS
: Absolutely does go to reasonableness.
JUDGE
: Well, I don't know how this is going to play out.
Really, it is hearsay.
GERAGOS
: I understand that. But it does go to
reasonableness of the investigation. And precisely
it's ultimately 1250 state of mind of my client,
who was trying to get this, get anybody to believe
that that's where he was in the Berkeley Marina.
JUDGE
: Okay. I'll instruct the jury, this ine 8 is not
being offered for the truth.
DISTASO
: I understand that. But,
GERAGOS
: We have named the witness who is going to
testify. I'm trying to show a separate issue, which
is the fact that my client was trying to prove to
the police,
JUDGE
: By letting you go beyond the scope of direct,
allowing him to getting into deep water. Ought to
go back to my original ruling.
GERAGOS
: We don't want to go in deep water.
GERAGOS
: What was the low tide?
JUDGE
: If you pardon the expression, right?
GERAGOS
: Q. What was the low tide, do you know?
ARMENDARIZ
: At what day and time were you referring to, sir?
GERAGOS
: Well, January, that first week, low tide in
Berkeley, I show you a report. Does that refresh
your recollection?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's not my report. That's done by Officer
Galvan from,
JUDGE
: The question is, does this refresh your
recollection? line GERAGOS: It
could be anybody's report.
GERAGOS
: Does the refresh your recollection?
JUDGE
: Does it refresh your recollection, officer?
ARMENDARIZ
: No.
GERAGOS
: Q. Well, do you know, as you sit there, what low
tide generally is in the Berkeley Marina?
ARMENDARIZ
: No, I don't.
GERAGOS
: When were you out there? How many times did you
go out and do the search?
ARMENDARIZ
: As stated earlier, six times.
GERAGOS
: During that six times it never, nobody ever
discussed, you didn't ever inquire as to what the
depth was during low tide?
ARMENDARIZ
: Not specifically, no.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Were you ever told, or did you ever see the
divers actually going into the water?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Could you see the divers when they were in
the water? Could you see the backs of their head as
they are feeling around on the ground?
ARMENDARIZ
: No.
GERAGOS
: No?
ARMENDARIZ
: No.
GERAGOS
: Now. When you went out, how many times would you
say you have been to the marina total? I know you
said six. Did you go, that was after the bodies
were found, correct? Six times after the bodies
were found searching in the Bay, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Right.
GERAGOS
: You have been to the marina numerous times before
that, hadn't you?
ARMENDARIZ
: I have been there a few times before, correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, the times that you went afterwards, let's
take them separately. May 10th, who did you go with
on that date?
ARMENDARIZ
: On May 10th I went out with the San Mateo County
Sheriff's Search and Rescue Marine Unit.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, you had been out there the first time
on December 30th; is that correct?
DISTASO
: Objection, your Honor. Goes beyond the scope of
direct.
JUDGE
: I'll permit it. Go ahead.
GERAGOS
: You had gone out there to determine whether or
not there were any live-aboard berthers at the
marina who had seen Scott Peterson, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And when you were doing that, you received
some information from one of the people in the
marina as to who the live-aboard berthers were,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: And you did that so you could go and find those
people and interview them and see whether or not
there was anybody who saw him at the marina, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Then you wanted to coordinate, or you
started to coordinate with another officer an
extensive water-land search for the Berkeley,
Albany, and Richmond area; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's not correct.
GERAGOS
: Oh. Well, did you contact, I'm showing you 21626.
ARMENDARIZ
: I did not coordinate the extensive investigation.
GERAGOS
: I asked if you contacted someone to help
coordinate it. Is that what happened?
ARMENDARIZ
: That 's not correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So you didn't contact somebody to help
coordinate an extensive water search? When they
write that report, that's just wrong?
ARMENDARIZ
: May have asked for assistance from other
agencies; but I asked them to coordinate the
search? No.
GERAGOS
: Who was that you that you contacted?
ARMENDARIZ
: I asked Officer Galvan from the Berkeley Police
Department to assist. However, I was not the one
that was coordinating the search. Detective Dodge
Hendee was the one who was coordinating the
extensive search.
GERAGOS
: But you were the one who made contact; isn't that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: I made contact with Officer Galvan on the 27th of
December of 2002, my first time I arrived at the
Berkeley Marina.
GERAGOS
: And on January 4th, you had contacted them,
because you wanted help coordinating an extensive
water-land search; isn't that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: He may have put that in the report, like you
showed me . But, no, that may have been done by a
Detective Dodge Hendee.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So this, what I showed you if this report,
that's wrong.
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, where is the Berkeley, Albany,
Richmond area?
ARMENDARIZ
: What are you referring to, sir?
GERAGOS
: I'm referring to the report which says there was
going to be an extensive land-water search in the
Berkeley, Albany, Richmond area. Do you know where
that is?
ARMENDARIZ
: It's in the Bay Area.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Do you know, were you, there was there a
search done on January 4th?
ARMENDARIZ
: The search that I'm familiar with was a search
that was coordinated in the Bay itself.
GERAGOS
: When was that?
ARMENDARIZ
: That started on May 16th, and it was the entire
week. However, I only participated on May 16th,
17th and 18th.
GERAGOS
: So you didn't have anything to do, it's your
testimony today , with the January 4th multiagency
search of the Berkeley, Albany, Richmond area? Once
again I'll show you 21626, see if that refreshes
your recollection. See, read from there to there.
ARMENDARIZ
: I did not participate in the search on January
4th.
GERAGOS
: And so you just called, the best of your memory
is, you called and asked for assistance. You didn't
help, or didn't ask to coordinate it; isn't that
what your testimony is?
ARMENDARIZ
: For the January 4th, that's correct. I didn't
coordinate the search.
GERAGOS
: Are you looking at something in order to refresh
your recollection?
ARMENDARIZ
: The exact same report you just showed me.
GERAGOS
: Actually it's not the, this is 2828.
ARMENDARIZ
: I'm sorry.
GERAGOS
: Right that's the page. Does that refresh your
recollection as to what involvement you had on
January 4th?
ARMENDARIZ
: I didn't coordinate the search for January 4th.
GERAGOS
: So you have reviewed this report, and report is
wrong; is that a fair statement?
ARMENDARIZ
: For January 4th, correct. I did not coordinate
the search of January 4th.
GERAGOS
: Then this report, do you know who prepared this
report?
ARMENDARIZ
: Officer Galvan.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, the May 10th search, was Dodge Hendee
with you? If it helps you, I have got 21725. And it
appears to be a report by Detective Rick
Armendariz.
ARMENDARIZ
: No, it was not.
GERAGOS
: You put that on May 9th, Detective Dodge Hendee
informed, Hendee informed you that he was
coordinating further searches; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. You also wrote Detective Hendee arranged
for me, that means you, right? To meet with the San
Mateo Marine unit on May 10th. Is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct. Like I stated, Detective Hendee was
involved, in charge of coordinating these searches.
GERAGOS
: Detective Hendee informed you that the search had
8 some specific grid areas that you were supposed
to go looking look at, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, it's your understanding that there was an
identification of an area that had a probability of
finding something of evidentiary value; is that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct. That was the information that was
relayed to me.
GERAGOS
: Okay. That was based on the U.S. Geological
Survey, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Can you show the jury where on that map
that area was?
ARMENDARIZ
: It was the same map identified earlier with
Prosecutor Distaso.
JUDGE
: Sergeant, there is a pointer there somewhere.
DISTASO
: Hanging on the board.
JUDGE
: Top board.
GERAGOS
: Q. Right up there.
ARMENDARIZ
: This is just a general area. It was to the
southeast of the Brooks Island.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And that area there was what was
identified, based on an U.S. Geological Survey, as
the probable area where you would find something,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's my understanding. That was related to me,
correct.
GERAGOS
: You were given GPS coordinates, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: And then I assume when you went out to search,
that you had some kind of GPS machine that would
then identify the specific area and the grid area
that you were to search, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Then you went out there, what, you also
took, let's see. Did you depart from the San Mateo
Marina?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Where is the San Mateo Marina on this map?
ARMENDARIZ
: I don't know if it's actually on this map or not.
But it's on the west side of the Bay, south of
Treasure Island, in this general area.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So that's the area where you were, where
you were to look at based upon what the
calculations were, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: No. I answered your question, where is the San
Mateo Bay Marina. That's the general area where we
departed from.
GERAGOS
: Did you depart from the San Mateo Marina in a San
Mateo Marine unit?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And when you went, and you went to the
specific location. That was a coordinate that was
about a half-mile square perimeter; is that right?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: And then this was with the San Mateo County
Sheriff's Search and Rescue Unit, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: You had a number of Sheriff's volunteers,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: On board, on the boat, correct.
GERAGOS
: One, two, three, four, five, six of them?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: You left the marina at about 7:45?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, once you got to the specific location,
you then lowered out the side sonar, correct.
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And that started about 9:00 o'clock, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And that started on the southwest corner of
the grid, and then you traveled north and south
within the grid itself, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And during the search, you had two of the
Sheriff's volunteers operating the Side-Scan Sonar,
right?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: One of the other volunteers operated the boat?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, you did locate several items of interest,
right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Images on the Side-Scan Sonar.
GERAGOS
: Right. Now, when we say images on the Side-Scan
Sonar, we have explained this before. But if I have
got it correct, there is, on the boat, there is a
screen or a monitor of some kind; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: You lower this torpedo thing into the water,
right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: You are on the boat, and somebody is looking,
more than one person is looking at the monitor?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: And then you can see what you describe as items
of interest for the divers to go down and pick up,
right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct, at a later time.
GERAGOS
: Okay. You scan the images, meaning that when an
image pops up, if it's something of interest,
somebody pushes a button of some kind on the
keyboard, and it prints out a photograph of that
image, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's not correct.
GERAGOS
: Well, did you scan the images?
ARMENDARIZ
: The process is, when the image is seen on the
screen, it's saved on the hard drive of the
computer. There is nothing that's printed right
then and there.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Well, when you located those items, did
the, did you photograph the scanned images?
ARMENDARIZ
: To clarify what you are saying, as far as
photographs, the image that is shown on the
Side-Scan Sonar screen is saved. That image is
saved on to the hard drive.
GERAGOS
: Well, you said that you scanned it. Scanned
images were photographed. Isn't that what you wrote
down?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct. I just wanted to clarify that
terminology of photograph. The photograph is on
screen.
GERAGOS
: I understand. But you saved it. The bottom line
is, you found items of interest. They were saved on
the screen, or they were saved in the hard drive
from what you saw on the screen, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Then at 2:00 o'clock, you had equipment
problems and the weather, so you didn't continue
the search; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: The equipment problems was the fact we lost the
sonar.
GERAGOS
: Now, at that point you had searched about a third
of the grid of that whole area, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's approximately, correct.
GERAGOS
: Then you had, at that point, GPS computer
generated a track of your search, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: The track is saved on the hard drive.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Well, so you had a record of where you had
line 16 searched already.
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Correct? Then you also saved all of the scanned
images of these items of interest?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And then you decided that you would go back
out, what, at about six days?
ARMENDARIZ
: To what date are you referring to?
GERAGOS
: You went out, if I understand correctly, all of
that that we just went through was on May 10th?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Then you go back on May 16th; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, on May 16th, it was your plan, or
actually was Dodge Hendee's plan to have a
week-long coordinated, comprehensive water search
of the San Francisco Bay, correct. Certain portions
of the Bay, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Right. Certain portions of the Bay was based upon
the U.S. Geological calculations.
GERAGOS
: What the probability was that you would find some
evidence related to this case, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And so that you decided that on May 16th
there was going to be a week-long effort in order
to search this area, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So you then had multiple law enforcement
agencies that became involved in this search,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct. I just want to clarify something. You
are saying that I decided, I made the decisions.
Those decisions weren't by me. They were
coordinated. I participated in those.
GERAGOS
: Well, that's, you are here to testify, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay.
ARMENDARIZ
: On what I did.
GERAGOS
: You are here to testify what you did, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: You are from Modesto PD, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: I think that was covered, correct.
GERAGOS
: So if you are here from Modesto PD to testify,
can you tell me what other agencies were there with
you on, starting on the 16th?
ARMENDARIZ
: What I'm referring to is the 21788. And it's pag
e six of seven, drawn up by Detective Hendee. And
he lists the various agencies that were involved,
which were consisting of, but were not limited to,
the U.S. Coast Guard, San Mateo Sheriff's Team, San
Luis Obispo Sheriff's Department, Berkeley PD,
Contra Costa Sheriff's Department, San Francisco
Police Department, Richmond Police Department, East
Bay Regional Park Police Department.
GERAGOS
: Let me ask you this, might make it a little bit
faster. Is this 21788 Bates stamp, is that what you
are looking at?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Somebody did an Excel program basically, inputted
all the different agencies on each day and who was
involved, what kind of equipment, and who from MPD
was there?
ARMENDARIZ
: Looks like it was authored by Detective Dodge
Hendee.
GERAGOS
: The best of your recollection, I'd like to mark
this next in order.
JUDGE
: That will be triple F.
GERAGOS
: Best of your recollection, is that an accurate
rendition or compilation of the agencies and the
personnel that were involved on those specific
days?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes. I believe we had some changes, last minute,
some agencies coming in late and not participating,
other agencies staffing additional staff. But, yes.
Like to add, can I finish the question?
GERAGOS
: Yes.
ARMENDARIZ
: And I wanted to add we also had private companies
that assisted in the search.
JUDGE
: Get the light. I can't even see it from here.
GERAGOS
: The first day, which is May 16th, this is a log
that is entitled "Daily Water Operations"; is that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: So on the first day that you went back out there
after the 10th, if I understand you correctly, on
the 10th you had already done one third of this
area, this grid, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's not correct. If I can elaborate.
GERAGOS
: Sure.
ARMENDARIZ
: There were numerous grid boxes. When we searched
on the 10th we only did one box grid.
GERAGOS
: Now, on the 16th, you had a Coast Guard,
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: What's Marine Number 1?
ARMENDARIZ
: That was an, if I can refer to my notes, refresh
my recollection. That was the FBI Dive Team.
However, they were on a Marin County Sheriff's
Department boat.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Also had San Mateo. That was a side sonar,
Side-Scan Sonar operation that was on one of the
San Mateo boats?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: So we had three there. Wing Stocks. Was that
another private vessel?
ARMENDARIZ
: That was a private company correct.
GERAGOS
: Which also had a Side-Scan Sonar?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: You had a San Luis Obispo. That was a municipal
boat, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Police Department, correct. City police
department.
GERAGOS
: Also equipped with Side-Scan Sonar; is that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, when you have MPD over there, does that mean
on each of these boats there is a Modesto Police
Department officer that's accompanying either the
FBI, or somebody from the Command Center, or one of
these other agencies?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And then you were on the San Luis Obispo
one, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: You also had a Contra Costa Dive Team with you?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And then what was this one here, the Marin
Number 2?
ARMENDARIZ
: Marin County had a second boat that,
GERAGOS
: How about Berkeley?
ARMENDARIZ
: Berkeley Police Department had a boat.
GERAGOS
: So we had two, four, six, eight boats out there?
ARMENDARIZ
: The Berkeley Police Department and the Marin
Number 2 were assigned more for perimeter security
than actual searches.
GERAGOS
: So where it says perimeter shuttle here, they are
keeping people away. Whether it's pleasure boaters,
or fishermen, or news media, or anything else, but
we have got six boats that are working and
searching, involves three separate side sonar,
Side-Scan Sonars and FBI Dive Team, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: How long were you out on May 16th? If you can
just tell me what page you are referring to to
refresh your recollection with.
ARMENDARIZ
: Sure. We launched at Emeryville Marina at 10:30.
And didn't indicate the time we secured. But I know
it was consistent with May 17th, which is, which
was about approximately 12:30 to 1:00 o'clock.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And is it safe to say you found nothing
that related to this case?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
<evening recess>
July 12, 2004
GERAGOS
: Sergeant, when we left off, I believe that we
were talking about the 16th; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: I believe so.
GERAGOS
: Okay. On the 16th, the searches that you had gone
through involved several boats, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And you were on one of those boats; is that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. The boat that you were on, do you remember
who was operating the side sonar, Side-Scan Sonar?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, I do.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Was that somebody from the Sheriff's
Department?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, it was.
GERAGOS
: Now, the, specifically we went over this. The
boat you were on was the one that provided by San
Luis Obispo, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: And as we indicated before, the other three,
Contra Costa, Marin and Berkeley, were just, they
were basically around the perimeter of the area,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: As well as shuttling equipment and staff from
boat to boat.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, on May 16th, what's the total amount
of time that that search took place for that total
water operation? If you are referring to a page
could you also let me know?
ARMENDARIZ
: Referring, yes. Referring to 21727, 21728,
starting with May 16th. We actually departed from
the Emeryville Marina. Launched at approximately
10:30 in the morning. And we actually arrived to
the location where we began the search at 11:30 in
the morning. We continued the search, it's not
indicated in my report, but it was consistent with
the following days. We concluded at approximately
1:00 o'clock.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And safe to say that you, after that
whatever number of hours that that calculates out
to, that there was no recovery of any evidence
related to this case, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: I can only speak for the boat that I was on, and
there was not.
GERAGOS
: Now, on the 17th, same, we have the same setup
here. It was a Saturday. There was the boat names
that are here. You have got the two that show for
perimeter and for shuttle, which is, once again,
Marin boat, and the Berkeley PD boat, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's what the chart indicates. I can only
testify to the boat that I was on and the days
that, what happened the day the boat that I was on.
GERAGOS
: Are you aware that there were four Side-Scan
Sonars out there searching this grid area on that
date?
ARMENDARIZ
: I was aware there was more than one, approximate
number. You would have to refer to the detective
who was on each one of those boats.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Do you know what the Wing Stocks and Gene
Ralston, San Mateo, San Luis Obispo are?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, they were there as well.
GERAGOS
: Best of your knowledge all of them had Side-Scan
Sonar that they were operating. That's your
understanding of what this search operation was?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Best of your understanding on that date there was
no evidence recovered in that grid search by those
number of boats, and by those people, including the
FBI Dive Team, Command Center, the four Side-Scan
Sonars and the Contra Costa Dive Team? As best as
you know, nobody reported to you, you didn't see
any evidence recovered whatsoever, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: I can only testify to the boat that I was on. And
the only item that we recovered off the boat that I
was on was a rope that was approximately 23 feet
long.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Did you put that in your report?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, I did. It's on page 21728.
GERAGOS
: Now, that rope that was recovered, was that on
the bottom of the sea floor?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, it was.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Presumably the Side-Scan Sonar was such
that you could drop it down, you could spot a rope
on the sea floor?
ARMENDARIZ
: No, that's not correct. On May 17th, I was with
the FBI Dive Team, and they were not using the
Side-Scan Sonar. They were actually diving on a
grid specifically designated for them. And they
were focusing on just diving, searching, doing
different grid searching for that area.
JUDGE
: Mr. Geragos, I think you misspoke. You said the
sea floor. It's the bay floor. They all are
thinking they are working in the Pacific Ocean some
place. MR. GERAGOS: Q. Were you in
the Bay?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, we were.
GERAGOS
: Okay. On the bay floor the divers actually went
down and were able to recover a rope?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And, apparent to you, was there any
complaint on the 17th that the Federal Bureau of
Investigation Search and Recovery Team was unable
to find stuff on the Bay floor?
ARMENDARIZ
: If you are asking if the FBI complained about
finding stuff, the complaint was that difficulty,
the undercurrent under the water, difficulty
searching, the visibility being zero, and the fact
they were doing a hand search.
GERAGOS
: And the hand search produced a rope. They found a
rope the floor of the Bay, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: In that particular area, correct.
GERAGOS
: And that was the specific area that had been
listed as a probability by the U.S. Geological
Service, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: It was within a grid, correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, that grid was, what you do as you go
out there, and you had global positioning devices;
is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: And would you get coordinates that you would mark
off in the bay there, based upon the global
positioning devices, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: And then you would mark off those areas, either
by these perimeter boats and by some other kind of
a buoy, and then the divers would basically go back
and forth and search the floor; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Specifically with the boat that I was on on May
17th, that's what we did. FBI Dive Team marked off
the grid location, and then they entered the water,
began doing a hand search under the bay water for
any items that they can locate.
GERAGOS
: And, specifically, they entered the water on the
17th at approximately 7:25 in the morning, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And after about four hours, this was about
a half mile square area, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Go down the end of your page. You identified as a
half mile square perimeter, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct. The perimeter the FBI searched.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So they were down there. How many divers
did you see down there for four hours?
ARMENDARIZ
: They would rotate the divers. There was two
divers down in the water searching.
GERAGOS
: Okay. They searched the entire grid area,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: No, we did not complete the search that day.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So you did, what, roughly five hours that
you were on the boat before you called it a day?
ARMENDARIZ
: Due to the deteriorating weather condition and
the undercurrent in the water.
GERAGOS
: Then you went, you came back on the 18th,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, on the 18th, same kind of a deal. We had a
number of boats, number of Side-Scan Sonars, and at
least three dive teams, correct? According to the
chart that we have got up here that's been marked
as triple F.
ARMENDARIZ
: According to be chart, that is what the chart
indicates. You would have to check with Detective
Hendee who exactly showed up for that day, and who
were the divers, and how many divers we had that
day.
GERAGOS
: You were with the Contra Costa County Sheriff's
Dive, Marine Dive Unit, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: On May 18th I was with the Contra Costa County
Sheriff's Dive Team, and we actually were not
diving. We were using the Side-Scan Sonar that day.
GERAGOS
: Okay. You started about 6:45 in the morning?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: And you were out there until the divers, well,
according to your report, at least, there were
divers there that day; is that correct? Showing up
about two thirds the way down on 21729. You weren't
just using the Side-Scan Sonar. You had divers
there.
ARMENDARIZ
: I'm sorry, I did make an error. That's correct.
On May 18th we also had divers with the Contra
Costa County Sheriff's Department.
GERAGOS
: And, once again, the divers had GPS, global
positioning coordinates. They went into the water
at 6:45 in the morning, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: They continued their search until one in the
afternoon, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. What did they find?
ARMENDARIZ
: On this day they did not recover anything related
to this case.
GERAGOS
: Didn't find any anchors. They didn't find any
remains. Didn't find anything, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: I can't speak for what the divers found under the
water. They did not bring up anything to the boat
to me on that day. They could have found items. I
don't know. You would have to speak to the divers
to find out exactly what, if anything, they located
underneath the sea.
GERAGOS
: If they found some cement anchors, they would
left them down on the bay floor?
ARMENDARIZ
: No. But there was, I know there is a lot of
garbage underneath the bay.
GERAGOS
: Well, there were other searches. There is a lot
of garbage down there. They brought the garbage up,
correct? Back in September they brought up a number
of items that were garbage, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That,
GERAGOS
: Beer bottles, tea glass bottles, small items of
garbage were brought up repeatedly from the bay
floor by the divers, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, the next day, let's see. The 19th, were you
out there then? May 19th?
ARMENDARIZ
: No, I was not.
GERAGOS
: Okay. As far as you know, did the search go on
May 19th and May 20th without you?
ARMENDARIZ
: This search was, continued to go on. And I did
not participate on the 19th or the 20th.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Then I assume the next search that you were
on was in September.e ARMENDARIZ:
Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So if I have got, if I understand this
correctly, you had been out to the bay some time in
December, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: To the marina, correct.
GERAGOS
: To the marina, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Then you went out. And for the first three days
of this search in May, this is after Laci and
Conner's remains were found, you were assigned to
search to see if you could find any evidence in
this area that the U.S. Geological had indicated
had a high probability, area, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: You did the search there. As far as you know, you
didn't find anything of any evidentiary value,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: On the specific boat that I was on, correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Then, once again, you are assigned out
there, I assume assigned out there some time in
September to do another search, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, in, what was the, September 18th was
the first day you went back out there?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, on September 18th, you were once again with
a number of people from Contra Costa County
Sheriff's Office, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct. If I can just take a step back. Actually
went back out on September 11th.
GERAGOS
: What did you do on September 11th?
ARMENDARIZ
: Just to, well, we went out and searched the bay
again. But, however, on this particular search, we
were looking at specific targets, as compared to
the May searches where we were just looking at
grids and covering grids, and searching general
areas. When we went back on September 11th, we went
back and were given specific locations to go out
and dive.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, as far as when you say specific
targets, did you understand that what happened is,
in the interim, some time after May, that somebody
had mapped the floor of the Bay?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And mapped the floor of the bay by using
Side-Scan Sonar, which basically would take
pictures of the entire floor of the bay, or the
area that was, that had been marked as the
perimeter, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Well, let me clarify. We did not map the bay when
Side-Scan Sonar went down on May the May 16th and
those days. The sonar would go down. We would see
items of interest; and, again, these are not
pictures that are clear and concise. We're looking
at shapes, size and shadows. And anything that
would look remotely interesting, we would save
those, mark the GPS location. Those photographs
were then analyzed by Detective Dodge Hendee. You
would have to check with him as far as how they
were able to weed through those. Then on September
11th is when we went out and dove on specific
items.
GERAGOS
: Well, specifically, after the May searches, in
July didn't the Modesto Police Department hire a
firm to map out positions or portions of the bottom
of the San Francisco Bay with something that was
called a REMUS, R-E-M-U-S?
ARMENDARIZ
: I couldn't answer that. I wasn't a party of that.
I wasn't privy to that information.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Were you aware that the Modesto Police
Department, after May, and after the Side-Scan
Sonar, had, in fact, mapped out the entire, or
hired a firm to map off the entire bottom of the
bay?
ARMENDARIZ
: Again I was not aware of the followup that was
being done. I was not privy to that information.
GERAGOS
: Were you aware that, you said there were targets.
And let me show you a report. This is marked as
33651. Were you aware that the targets that you
were looking at was based upon this REMUS device
that had been supplied by this commercial firm
which gave in excess of a couple hundred targets to
dive on?
ARMENDARIZ
: The item, the report you are showing me is a 7
report that was written by Detective Dodge Hendee,
and he would be the person that you would need to
contact regarding those questions specifically with
that. The only information that I was aware of on
the 11th, there were specific locations we were to
dive on, and that's what we did.
GERAGOS
: Well, did you know, in Dodge Hendee's report on
September 11th, that, that specifically what they
are referring to, what they are actually going to
do was to dive on the targets that were mapped out
by this company?
DISTASO
: Objection, your Honor. Calls for facts not in
evidence.
JUDGE
: Sustained.
GERAGOS
: Are you aware that that's why you were sent back
out there?
ARMENDARIZ
: The only information that I was privy to was the
fact that there was an additional followup. And
with the Side-Scan Sonars that we have done May
16th, there were specific locations for us to dive
on in September. And that was the only information
that I was privy to.
GERAGOS
: Now, when you went back out there, you started on
September 11th, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: And you met with the Contra Costa Emergency
Services Dive Recovery Team, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: You took Dive Boat Number One, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: I don't remember specifically what number we were
identified as. But, yes, I did go out with Contra
Costa County Dive and Rescue Team.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, there was a list of items that were
picked up on those dives; is that correct? Prepared
by you. I'm looking at 33094.
ARMENDARIZ
: You are looking at 33094, you are referring to
September 18th?
GERAGOS
: That's correct.
ARMENDARIZ
: You are asking me questions on September 11th.
GERAGOS
: No. You started on September 11th, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: You were out there for how long?
ARMENDARIZ
: I was there September 11th, and I went back
September 18th.
GERAGOS
: Okay. When you went back on September 18th, you
did a chronology, or at least an itemization of all
the GPS points, the time in, the time out, and what
was located, and who the divers were, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, to go through here, the first two
locations, these targets that you had, nothing was
located, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: The third location the divers found a wooden
stick, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: You are referring to F45. And that's correct.
GERAGOS
: How big was this wooden stick?
ARMENDARIZ
: There is a photograph of it on 33096. And it was
F45.
GERAGOS
: How big would you estimate it to be?
ARMENDARIZ
: There is a ruler in the photograph, which is a
foot long. And looks like it's approximately foot
and half, possibly about two feet long.
GERAGOS
: So apparently the, whatever, however you got
these targets, the divers were able to find pieces
of wood that were a foot and a half long, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct. They went to the dive location. And in
that general dive location was a piece of wood that
they found.
GERAGOS
: You don't know what it was that triggered whether
they saw this picture of the wooden stick first,
but you know that there was a target location where
they were supposed to dive, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: And you would identify that as a GPS point,
correct? A global positioning point where the
divers were instructed, hey, we have got a target
down here, so this is where it is, go down and find
it. They went down and found it, and it was a
one-foot or foot-and-a-half wooden stick, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, the next thing that actually was found, at
least in your report, is in a location called F26;
is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, F26 is, once again, a specific area of
the bay that was marked off as having a target of,
or some kind of item of interest. You don't know
how it was that they saw this. You know this was
something down on the bottom of the bay floor,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: The divers went down there; and, sure enough,
after they had been down there for about twenty
minutes, what did they find?
ARMENDARIZ
: They recovered a tire.
GERAGOS
: How big was the tire? Can you show the jury with
your hands approximately how, what size that tire
was?
ARMENDARIZ
: It was a standard automobile tire.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And apparently somebody could see that, and
was on the Side-Scan Sonar or this other device,
you don't know when, but it was target. They went
down there, within twenty minutes they found it,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: No. I can't tell you that that's the item they
saw on the Side-Scan Sonar. I can tell you that
when we went down on that particular geographical
area, that within the general area of that location
there was a tire that was recovered.
GERAGOS
: Anything else that was recovered from F26?
ARMENDARIZ
: No. That was the only thing that was recovered.
GERAGOS
: They were down there for twenty minutes, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: They found an item, turned out to be a tire,
right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, that's what I said.
GERAGOS
: Okay. What about F24? They go down to another
specific area on the bay floor, find something
there?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes.
GERAGOS
: Okay. They were down there for two minutes; is
that correct? The divers went down, and within two
minutes they found the object, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: They found an object, right.
GERAGOS
: They found an object. What was that object?
ARMENDARIZ
: There was a pipe, a metal pipe approximately,
looking at the photograph on 33096, it was an
approximate three-foot-long metal pipe.
GERAGOS
: How thick was the metal pipe?
ARMENDARIZ
: I'm looking at the photograph at 33026. It was
approximately an inch to inch and a half in
diameter.
GERAGOS
: Apparently somebody identified a target in this
specific area that was about three feet by an inch
to inch and a half?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's just an estimation looking at the
photograph, correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. They recovered. And the divers, they
brought the pipe up, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Then they have another location, which would be
the next grid over, which was F25. Once again, this
was a target or targeted area for the divers to go
down there, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: And they found another tire there, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: They brought that tire up?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Then they went to a couple of other locations,
looks like one, two, three, four, five, then the
next that they went to was B12; is that right?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Once again, that's just a letter and number
that's assigned to a specific grid area on the
bottom of the floor?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, they found a plastic bag?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: So apparently at least the visibility, or the,
however it was determined that there was a target
down there, was sophisticated enough that it could
find a plastic bag on the bay floor, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: I'm not going to agree to that statement. I can
state that that specific target area within that
search area, there was a bag that was recovered
within that area.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, is this different than the, this
plastic bag, was that retained in evidence?
ARMENDARIZ
: These items were documented photographed and
were,
GERAGOS
: Thrown away?
ARMENDARIZ
: Thrown away after they were, I believe they were
not related to this case.
GERAGOS
: They weren't tested by anybody, were they?
ARMENDARIZ
: No.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Nobody did, you didn't send them to the
crime lab, or anything, did you, as far as you
know?
ARMENDARIZ
: No.
GERAGOS
: So what you did, you photographed it, somebody
photographed it, then they just determined it
wasn't related, they threw it away?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Who made that determination that it wasn't
related?
ARMENDARIZ
: Referred the information to Detective Dodge
Hendee.
GERAGOS
: Now, were there any other items that you went
down on the 18th and determined and found in these
target areas, besides the ones we have just gone
through?
ARMENDARIZ
:
Well, we returned, Sergeant Christensen from
the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department
located an empty bag, that was a plastic bag
that was floating in the general area of the
search.
GERAGOS
: That was a gravel bag?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. That's the gravel bag was that specifically
photographed and thrown away?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct. Again, referred to Detective
Dodge Hendee.
GERAGOS
: Now, on September 11th, you did the same thing we
just went through with the jury for September 18th,
correct? I'm referring you to 33092.
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes, correct. I went to the Contra Costa County
Sheriff's Department with their dive team.
GERAGOS
: The first three areas that you went to, you
didn't locate anything, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Actually the first four. Then the fifth one,
which was marked as F47, that's another grid area,
right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And they went down looking for a target,
and after ten minutes they came up with a tea glass
bottle?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: How big is the tea glass bottle?
ARMENDARIZ
: It's photographed in 33026. And it's a standard,
this is an estimate, approximately twelve-ounce tea
bottle, glass tea bottle.
GERAGOS
: When you say standard, like a Snapple bottle?
ARMENDARIZ
: No, it was a little larger than a Snapple bottle.
GERAGOS
: And apparently they were able to, divers were
able to find that on the bottom of the bay floor?
ARMENDARIZ
: They recovered that from the bay.
GERAGOS
: What page is the picture there?
ARMENDARIZ
: 33096.
GERAGOS
: And what was the next thing that was found on the
bottom of the floor of the bay?
ARMENDARIZ
: There was F44. There was a piece of wood which I
indicated was approximately two feet long, three
inches wide.
GERAGOS
: Okay. How many inches?
ARMENDARIZ
: Piece of wood, two feet long, and three inches
wide, approximately.
GERAGOS
: Apparently that was such that the divers could
see it, find it, and retrieve it and bring it up so
you could photograph it; is that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: I don't know if they were able to see it, but
they recovered it from under water and brought it
up to the boat.
GERAGOS
: Okay. The pictures that you are talking about,
I'd like to, which I think already identified by
the Bates number stamp. These the same pictures?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Mark these has defense next in order.
JUDGE
: Triple G. Copy of Pictures
Marked as Exhibit GGG for identification.
D. HARRIS: With the usual copying and substituting
the copy.
GERAGOS
: Just for the time being I'll stip.
JUDGE
: Stipulate a copy can be substituted?
D. HARRIS: Yes.
GERAGOS
: Now, the pictures of the items that you found,
specifically this is the tea bottle right here?
ARMENDARIZ
: F47, correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, we have got F44 there. What's that?
ARMENDARIZ
: F44 is the piece of wood that was approximately
two feet long and three inches wide.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So on the bottom of the bay floor there is
piece of wood that's about 24 inches by three
inches. Was there anything attached to it? Or was
it just a piece of this, is it right here?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's it. Next to it is a paper ruler.
GERAGOS
: That right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. The paper ruler is to just show by
comparison what the size of the piece of wood is.
That's why you laid it next to it?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So that's on the bottom of the bay floor.
They are able to find that on the bottom of the bay
floor, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: That was recovered in that area, correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. How about A10? What is A10?
ARMENDARIZ
: A10 is an another white plastic bag.
GERAGOS
: Now, this white plastic bag on A10, is that, was
there anything in the bag?
ARMENDARIZ
: No.
GERAGOS
: So apparently the divers could find on the bottom
of the bay floor a plastic bag with nothing in it,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, the F5. Do we have that, that's right
here. What is that?
ARMENDARIZ
: That is a cloth sail.
GERAGOS
: A what?
ARMENDARIZ
: A cloth sail.
GERAGOS
: How large is that?
ARMENDARIZ
: Other than the photograph that's depicted on
33096, I did not measure it.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, the A14, right here. They also located
that. And that was from yet another, by the way,
every time you have got the letter and the number
in there, that refers to another grid area,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: And that's one of these target areas that you
were given both on the 11th and the 18th, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: And so they found there was a target area,
somebody was able to, either through side-scan, or
through mapping, or something, to find something on
the floor and they found a blue square bucket,
right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Blue square bucket was the item that was
recovered by the dive team that brought that up to
the boat, correct.
GERAGOS
: How about the A15? What is that?
ARMENDARIZ
: A15 was another bucket that was recovered from
the dive team.
GERAGOS
: Okay. A7?
ARMENDARIZ
: A7 was a beer can that was located.
GERAGOS
: So apparently they had, this was so sophisticated
that they could actually spot a target as small as
a beer can and recover that?
DISTASO
: Objection, your Honor. It's argumentative.
JUDGE
: Sustained.
GERAGOS
: The beer can that they pulled up, you
photographed. I assume you figured there was no
evidentiary value, threw it away?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. The sail we talked about. What's A45?
ARMENDARIZ
: A45 was a search from the 18th. That was a wooden
stick.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And the B12? Right there.
ARMENDARIZ
: B12 was also the search that was done on
September 18th. And that was a plastic bag.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And, once again, I assume these are the
rulers right here, to give you a size or an idea of
how large these items are?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct.
GERAGOS
: How long is that ruler?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's a standard ruler size. Approximately
twelve inches.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So all of these items are measured up
against a twelve-inch ruler that are in the
pictures. How about, move it up. Here F24, what's
that?
ARMENDARIZ
: F24 was what I described earlier. It was an item
that was recovered on the 18th. And it was the
metal pipe.
GERAGOS
: That's the pipe. Okay. And F26 and 25 are the two
tires that you described?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Okay. Now, the gravel bag, it's kind of hard to
read here. That's what's in this bottom picture; is
that correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, all of these items were recovered in the
various grid areas that were searched by the divers
and the, from the various entities, whether it be
FBI, Contra Costa, or whoever, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: No, that's not correct. Items that were
photographed were recovered from the divers on the
boats that I was specifically on on September 11th
and September 18th.
GERAGOS
: Okay. How many of those locations did you go to?
Have you counted them?
ARMENDARIZ
: For what day?
GERAGOS
: Start from the 11th. Let me just suggest it. 21.
Did you go to 21 grid locations, and you located,
it appears, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven
items out of the 21 locations?
ARMENDARIZ
: That's correct, for September 11th.
GERAGOS
: Okay. September 18th how many locations did you
go to? Specifically when I say locations, we're
talking about a grid area where there was a target
of interest.
ARMENDARIZ
: Counting 23.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And out of the those 23, you found one,
two, three, four, five, things, basically. Two
tires, a pipe a stick, and a plastic bag; is that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: That looks to be correct.
GERAGOS
: Now, there were other searches going on in the
interim, but were you not part of them; is that
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: I was part of the search that was being done by
the boat that I was on.
GERAGOS
: And when was that, did you go back out there, so
we have established you were out there the May
dates, you were at the marina in December, you went
back out on September 11th and September 18th?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: Any other dates you were out there searching?
ARMENDARIZ
: No.
GERAGOS
: Okay. And during all of the times and all of the
searches that you were out there, the sum total of
evidence related to this case that was recovered
from the bottom of the bay floor, zero.
ARMENDARIZ
: On the boats that I was on, correct.
GERAGOS
: Thank you. I have no further questions.
Redirect Examination by Rick Distaso
DISTASO
: Sergeant Armendariz, these items that we see that
were found in the Bay, obviously just garbage,
correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: And was that indicative of what was scattered
throughout the bottom of the San Francisco Bay?
GERAGOS
: Objection. Calls for speculation.
JUDGE
: Sustained.
DISTASO
: Was garbage located, to your knowledge, on other
boats when people, when these searches took place?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: So these items that were we're seeing here,
GERAGOS
: I would object. He's just indicated he had no
knowledge of the other boats apparently what they
did.
JUDGE
: He just testified, Mr. Distaso, that he could
only testify as to what was recovered on his boat.
DISTASO
: Right. Let's just go down the boats that you were
on. This garbage that was recovered,
GERAGOS
: Be an objection as to his characterization of
garbage.
JUDGE
: Call them items so we don't get these objections.
These items he's already testified he thought they
were garbage.
JUDGE
: Let's refer to them as items then.
DISTASO
: These items that you have testified were garbage,
this was, these were items that were found, it
appears, throughout the days you were out searching
in the bay?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: And these grid areas that you were given to
search, about how large were they?
ARMENDARIZ
: Grids specifically were approximately quarter
mile in size. And those were the grid areas which
we were, we were searching different days.
JUDGE
: Quarter mile square?
ARMENDARIZ
: Yes.
DISTASO
: So then the, and what would happen is, you would,
GERAGOS
: Objection. Leading.
DISTASO
: Well, why don't you tell us what would happen?
That's even easier. In this quarter mile square
grid, how would the searches work?
ARMENDARIZ
: On the searches that we did on May 16th, again,
what we were doing, we would, we were given a grid
map of the bay. And the entire grid was
approximately a mile and quarter by mile and three
quarters square in size. Within that there were
grids in itself that were approximately a quarter
mile square. And on the 16th, 17th and 18th, what
we would do, we would go, we would be given an
assignment, whichever square we would go to in that
area, the boats would go out, the Side-Scan Sonar,
on the boat that I was with, Side-Scan Sonar, we
would begin the search up and down either north and
south, or, actually, the search we did were north
and south within that grid area using the Side-Scan
Sonar identifying any items of interest, if there
was anything that was interesting. Again, these
images are not clear and concise. They were blurry.
They are black and white. We are looking at three
different areas. We are looking at the size of the
item, the shape of the item, and the shadow of the
item, if you will, that's not clear and concise.
Anything that looked like to be remotely
interesting or possible item, we would identify by
saving that image, and saving it on the hard drive.
We would continue the grid search until the water
conditions became, specifically the undercurrent,
because the Side-Scan Sonar is attached to the
boat, the Side-Scan Sonar would start to,
GERAGOS
: Objection. Non-responsive.
JUDGE
: This is narrative now.
DISTASO
: Okay. Let me stop you. So something about the
current would impact how the Side-Scan Sonar
worked?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
DISTASO
: What was that?
ARMENDARIZ
: The undercurrent.
DISTASO
: Okay. And these the pictures, so the jury
understands, is this like, you know, like, are you
looking at the screen, look like you are watching a
TV, TV screen of the bay floor?
ARMENDARIZ
: No.
DISTASO
: I mean it's an, you know, clear, like your
digital image at home where you see everything you
want to see?
ARMENDARIZ
: No.
DISTASO
: And so these pictures that we're looking at, you
said that you, you are looking at shape and
shadows. What else did you say?
ARMENDARIZ
: Size, shape, and shadow.
DISTASO
: So like, for example, one of those buckets like
the bucket there in A15 on the screen, what would
that look like on the,
GERAGOS
: Be an objection. There is no foundation he
specifically, whenever I tried to question him
about his faint knowledge of Side-Scan Sonar,
DISTASO
: Objection, your Honor. That's argumentative. It's
not even true.
JUDGE
: First of all, you weren't looking at the
Side-Scan Sonar, as I understand. You were looking
at the images that were portrayed on the Side-Scan
Sonar.
ARMENDARIZ
: I did see the images at the time. When the deputy
assigned to it was reviewing, I would take a look
over at it.
JUDGE
: A15, do you recall ever looking at what was
purported to be A15, that was finally recognized.
ARMENDARIZ
: Specifically A15, I couldn't say I did.
JUDGE
: Next question.
DISTASO
: What I just want to get out of, when you looked
over the, well, you are not an expert in evaluating
these images, correct?
ARMENDARIZ
: No, I'm not.
DISTASO
: Just what did you see when you looked at the
screen? I just want the jury to understand. What is
it that you see when you are along at the screen?
GERAGOS
: There would be an objection. It's irrelevant. The
person to testify to that is the person that's
operating the Side-Scan Sonar.
JUDGE
: He's testified that he looked over the shoulder.
DISTASO
: Okay. Well, that, I'm assuming he was looking at
the screen.
DISTASO
: What would you observe? You said shape, shadows,
and size, right?
ARMENDARIZ
: Right. And I would look at the screen. I would
see dark little images, little blurs. Can't make
them out. I would ask the operator what those
images were, if it was anything related. And
sometimes they were fish. Sometimes they were just
piles of mud that accumulated under the bay. Just
various items, various shapes.
DISTASO
: Counsel asked you about the visibility that the
divers were reporting, and you said they were
reporting zero visibility. What did you mean by
that?
ARMENDARIZ
: Black water. That they would have to do their
searches with their hands literally. They couldn't
see their hand in front of their mask.
DISTASO
: So when they were down on the bottom, they were
reporting they were kind of crawling along the
bottom.
GERAGOS
: Objection. Hearsay. Searching with their hands.
JUDGE
: It's also leading. Sustained. Jury can draw their
own conclusion, Mr. Distaso.
DISTASO
: This was a question that I asked you last week,
and forgot to ask you the follow-up. Remember, you
testified that on one of the boats you were on, the
San Mateo boat, lost their sonar unit?
ARMENDARIZ
: Their Side-Scan Sonar unit.
DISTASO
: How long did it take them to find this?
ARMENDARIZ
: They didn't recover it until approximately two
weeks later on. They actually located it on the
23rd after doing extensive searches, even though
they had a general area of where they lost it at.
They marked it when they lost it.
DISTASO
: They found on it May 23rd. What day was it lost?
ARMENDARIZ
: May 10th.
DISTASO
: Nothing further, your Honor.
Recross Examination by Mark Geragos
GERAGOS
: How big is this side scan unit that was lost?
ARMENDARIZ
: As I testified couple of days ago, it was
approximately five feet in length, yellow in color.
Looks like a torpedo. Weighs approximately fifty to
sixty pounds.
GERAGOS
: It's five foot?
ARMENDARIZ
: Approximately.
GERAGOS
: About 50 or 60 pounds. And it was lost on the
11th?
ARMENDARIZ
: No. It was lost on May 10th.
GERAGOS
: Okay. How many times did they go out searching
for it between May 10th and May 23rd?
ARMENDARIZ
: They advised they spent approximately thirty
hours. They, being specifically Deputy George
Carrie.
GERAGOS
: Okay. So an item that's five feet tall, that
weighs fifty pounds, they find within 30 zero on
the floor of the bay; is that right? Thirty hours
worth of search. And that item that was five foot
and weighed fifty pounds, they were able to find in
30 hours?
ARMENDARIZ
: That is approximately correct.
GERAGOS
: What if the item was a hundred fifty-three pounds
and five feet, how long would that take?
DISTASO
: Objection, your Honor. Argumentative.
JUDGE
: Sustained. Argumentative. Sustained.
GERAGOS
: Items that are up here on the chart which has
been marked as triple G, they were able to find
those items, correct, the divers?
ARMENDARIZ
: No. They were recovered, those items in the
specific geographical area, they were given, when
they do their search in that area, those were the
items that were recovered.
GERAGOS
: How many specific geographical areas were you
given, total?
ARMENDARIZ
: I think we went over that, covering the numbers
on the 11th and the 18th.
GERAGOS
: No. You are talking about the ones that you just
searched. I'm talking about all of the search
teams. How many geographical area and targets of
interest were they given?
ARMENDARIZ
: You would have to check with Detective Dodge
Hendee for Modesto PD who coordinated the entire
search for that week.
GERAGOS
: You are aware that it was over 223 quarter-mile
locations, aren't you?
DISTASO
: Objection, your Honor. Calls for speculation.
GERAGOS
: To search?
JUDGE
: Sustained.
GERAGOS
: The divers that you were working with, you were
working with both the FBI Dive Team, and Contra
Costa?
ARMENDARIZ
: Correct.
GERAGOS
: And, once again, how many items of evidence
related to this case did you find on your boats
during all of those searches?
DISTASO
: Objection. Been asked and answered.
JUDGE
: Sustained. Zero is the answer.
GERAGOS
: Thank you. I have no further questions.
JUDGE
: That's it?
DISTASO
: I don't have anything further.
JUDGE
: May this witness be excused?
GERAGOS
: Yes.
DISTASO
: Yes.
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